by Mike Winger
Here's how this video is going to be different than what some people would expect. 1- If you are a flat-earther you are welcome here. I'm not here to mock anyone. I respect people on both sides of the issue. 2- I'm not going to get side-tracked on questions about geocentricity, the firmament, or ANE views outside the Bible. I'm just focusing on the flat earth question. 3- I'm going to methodically handle the proof-texts used by flat earth proponents to support their views. I only want to ask "do these verses support a conclusion that the Bible teaches a flat earth?" 4- I'm not interested, in this teaching, about what "science says" or questions of conspiracies. I'm only asking about the Bible. The simple method here is to have a sober look at the passages used to support a flat earth theory and show what they are really saying, in context. This video is meant to be a helpful resource for those who sincerely want to ask whether or not the Bible, on it's own, is teaching a flat earth. Links you may be interested in. The full Dean Odle video I played clips of (really bad exegesis) Strong's concordance for "platus" Want a BibleThinker mug? Thanks to supporters I can study all day and make completely free videos teaching theology and apologetics. If you want to support this work please click here.

This Text has been pulled from Youtube closed captioning. It has not been proofed.

okay first thing I want to say is you're clicking on or watching the live stream here this is not a sensationalist video this video is not to attack anybody or basically I'm not here to be a jerk no not at all in fact what I am is I'm a pastor who cares very deeply about understanding the Bible properly about reading it in its context and knowing what it really says because I do believe that God has inspired the Scriptures and so I spend my days I spend my days and nights and nights actually studying theology and apologetics I make these free videos online for you guys just that it would bless you meet you where you are when you need it that's what I do with all my time I do this put up free content for you I care sincerely about people though about believers who I think are being led astray by some of the bad Bible study practices that I see inside the Flat Earth stuff so that's it's it's a big concern of mine well I love you my brothers and sisters my Flat Earth friends and I do even have friends who've been brought into this whole flat earth thing and they think it's biblical but what I'm telling you is not that you're wrong about the earth that's a different video I'm telling you you're wrong about the Bible that's what this video is about you're wrong about the Bible so welcome to to the Tuesday livestream I'm Pastor Mike winger where we learn how to think of Italy about everything and today we're taking your Flat Earth Bible verses and we're looking at them in context which i think is all it takes to show you that they're not saying what you think they're saying and we're gonna get into this but first I want to lay the ground rules so here's the ground rules and yes you can put questions in the chat but I can already tell you I will not be able to get to all your questions I'll answer some questions from the live chat at the end of the stream you put a capital Q and you can ask some questions AJ I'll grab a smattering of them and I'll answer a bunch okay and I will prefer questions from Flat Earth leaning or believers or people who are just at least in that kind of camp thinking about that camp those are the questions I'm hopefully gonna get and I'm hopefully help hoping to answer them you know whatever I might miss during this stream but here's here's the ground rules though here's the ground rules I this video is not about conspiracies not gonna talk about conspiracies or what you know in time's issues and things like that it's not about that this video is not about geocentrism or the idea that the Sun goes around the earth not the earth around the Sun that is a unrelated issue because you can have a globe earth with geocentrism a flat earth with geocentrism it's it's unrelated it's an unrelated issue to the Flat Earth this is not about the firmament the i'ma nerd one day God willing I'll do a whole video on the firmament that's a whole nother long video and tons of research to do but this is not about the firmament because guess what you can have a solid dome firmament that doesn't give you a flat earth there's nothing about that that says there's a flat earth no this is the question of is the earth flat according to biblical verses according to teachings in the Bible that's the question I'm not going to talk about ancient near-eastern thought at the time of the ancient Hebrews why because just because whatever people thought back then whether they believed that or didn't believe it it's irrelevant irrelevant to whether or not the Bible actually teaches a flat earth you could affirm that they thought it but the Bible doesn't teach it we're dealing with the question of what the Bible actually teaches what it proclaims that's the question all right here we go now you know the ground rules and I know what we're doing let's dig in let's first talk about the ends of the earth verses there's a bunch of verses people use for flat earth and I've kind of categorized them right one of the one of the first verses that I've had sent to me when people said Mike the Bible says the earth is flat is these end of the earth vs. the bible does talk about how the earth has ends or it talked about the ends of the earth so here we are I'm currently in the ESV but you can look all these up in the King James Version if that's your leaning as well you're not going to find significant differences I don't think job 28-24 is the first first we'll go to it says for he looks to the ends of the earth he sees everything under the heavens okay clearly I'm not disputing this right the Bible definitely says that the earth has ends or at least it uses the phrase the ends of the earth that's what it talks about here that's for sure now in Flat Earth view this is the ends of the earth the earth itself in case for those who don't know that the perspective of a Flat Earth is that there is these edges on the on the ends of the earth like you could you go there and that you can't go any further just stops right there now there's what you probably don't realize if you look at it from above is they're not thinking that the earth is flat and we have like the North Pole on one side the South Pole on the other in fact with the flatters view what they generally do is they they imagine if you sort of grab the globe and you took the South Pole and you just stretch that open and you flattened out the earth and so you have you can see in this you have North and South America you have Africa you've got these the North Pole in the middle of the map and the South Pole is now stretched out all around the entire map that would be the current view of the Flat Earth the one that I always see promoted so they think that the Sun and the moon are small and that these people who promote this view that they're sort of going around the earth this is a crude example of it there's more complicated versions of this but basically the Sun in the moon er you know they're they're close to the earth they're small and they're sort of circling like this they're not actually going around the entire mass of the earth they're just you know doing a circuit like that that would be the Flat Earth view and you could you could see how its supported in a sense from Jobe 2824 but let me take you to another passage they'll give us a hint on how we should understand verses like this Jobe 2824 and how the phrase ends of the earth doesn't mean that the earth has ends the ends of the earth doesn't mean the earth has ends why well let's look at the text itself let's let scripture guide us Psalm chapter let's see chapter 67 verse 7 which says God shall bless us let all the ends of the earth fear Him now this is a an interesting verse it gives us a hint at the difference here because what's happening in Psalm 67 7 is there thinking that the ends of the earth are gonna fear the Lord like there's people there wherever the ends of the earth is and they're gonna fear God they should respond to God yet as far as I know on all Flat Earth models there ain't no people there these are uninhabited lands that are uninhabited ice it's a giant ice wall and you can't get there that's that's the idea and so already we've got a problem because here the text of Scripture seems to indicate that there is people there but it gets way more clear than this if we read on I mean after I show you these verses you'll realize you can say the ends of the earth is talking about physical edges on what we would think of as the planet Earth absolutely not it's impossible to do Isaiah chapter 45 verse 22 it says turn to me and be saved all the ends of the earth for I am God and there is no other here's the ends of the earth again turn to me and be saved God says to the ends of the earth I mean this is just talking about distant people distant people who are who are outside the Land of Israel they're called the ends of the earth and God says I want you all I want you all to know the gospel and be saved that's that's the message here that everyone you know can be saved that's a beautiful message but no it gets more clear than that it's more clear than that because now what you need if you're flattered through you have to adopt this into your view if you're if you're a biblical flatterer and say there's edges of the earth but there's people that live there and we're supposed to bring the gospel to them and now you need to change your mission statement to bringing the gospel to the ends of the earth not just proving that there's ends to the earth but there's more so let's go to Deuteronomy Deuteronomy chapter 28 and this cannot be I think this is the irrefutable part you saw my thumbnail or might I might my title for the video that you're a beautiful evidence well I believe this is irrefutable gerrae Deuteronomy 28 49 it says the Lord will bring a nation against you from far away from the end of the earth swooping down like the Eagle right a nation whose language you do not understand a hard-faced nation and it will go on and talk about all the things this nation will do to you in Deuteronomy this is this is the threats and the curses and the blessings and all this sort of thing that happens with the law God gives them the law through Moses and this is why you needed the context of Scripture right he gives him the law through Moses and he says look if you don't obey this law I'm gonna bring nations from the ends of the earth and they're gonna come and swoop down on you and they're gonna take you away and carry you away now this actually did happen now those of you who know your know your Bible you know when this happened right this happened especially in particular this is what the Bible highlights a lot is when Babylon came in in Assyria came in and these two particular nations came in one taking away the northern kingdom the other the southern kingdom that these are the nations from the ends of the earth so biblically the ends of the earth is Babylon now it gets stronger than this I can make it stronger okay let's let's move on let's just look at the another verse same chapter Deuteronomy 28 64 and the Lord will scatter you among all peoples from one end of the earth to the other and there you shall serve gods of wood and stone data which you and your fathers haven't known in other words what what Deuteronomy saying is that there's gonna be people who are on the ends of the earth they're gonna come to Israel take you take you to the ends of the earth and then he promises later that he'll gather them back from the ends of the earth so if you're a flat earther and you think into the earth is the edges of your Flat Earth map you have to figure out how to in your history how to get it so that Israel was hijacked by nations living on the ice wall around the edge of the earth brought to that ice wall and then brought back even though the Bible makes it clear this was just Babylon this was just Babylon where do we see this in scripture we actually see this same area the same contact content quoted in scripture to show its fulfillment is in Nehemiah chapter 1 verse 8 Nehemiah 1:8 Nimoy's praying because they've been taken captive right into foreign nations and here he is he's in Susa well let me just show you where he is right and we get this in verse 1 he says it happened in the month of just love in the twenty twentieth year as I was in Susa the Citadel this is where he's located he's in Susa and he's there with Jews you know who escaped and survived the Exile anyway that he's talking about the Jews that had escaped and survived the Exile so this is during the Exile this is during the fulfillment of that Deuteronomy passage and here in verse 8 he says in prayer to God remember the word that you commanded your servant Moses saying if you're unfaithful I will scatter you among the peoples but if you return to me and keep my Commandments and do them though you and this is I highlight just this one part though you're outcasts are in the uttermost parts of heaven from there I will gather and bring them to the place that I have chosen now on a flat earth view the uttermost parts of heaven would have to be either there like in like some spatial domain but that doesn't fit the context here cuz God's gathering them and so they have to be up that Edgware sort of they they see the the dome above us meeting the ice wall right that's where those outcasts have to be and God says I will gather them but Nehemiah is asking to be brought in from where from Susa where Susa Souza is about 1035 miles from Jerusalem here's this is Google Maps my head is in Africa right now my brain is in a giant brain looking thing of Africa and it makes me feel smarter so yeah this is it did Iran sousou's and Iran the fulfillment of this text the ends of the earth and the uttermost parts of heaven is Iran this is just over a thousand miles away from Jerusalem so yeah there is simply no way on earth that these passages can be taken to mean that the earth has edges why is it though why is this well we'll come back to that in just a second let me let me take you to a passage from Jesus because um it does weigh in on this now that you know this that ends of the earth is a phrase meaning nations far from the perspective of Israel that it's a phrase that doesn't isn't to be taken literally right then you can see what is being said here Jesus says then he will send out the angels oh let me give it to you on the screen as well he will send out the angels and gather his elect from the four winds from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven so he just seems gonna gather them from everywhere it's not saying that earth has edges that's not the point at all that's just to misunderstand the text reading cosmology or you know onto onto a text that's just about like local geography no so that's the idea so yeah let me let me offer one more note on the I'm trying to pay attention to my notifications on my phone here only because I've recently had issues with the livestream where I like had a microphone muted and I just wanna make sure I don't miss that okay so on on the view on the Flat Earth view if you're with me here so you're still flattered just hear me out okay you don't need to change your mind so far just listen to me I'm just doing a Bible study with you on there view the Sun doesn't actually go to the edge of the earth because the ends of the earth are those edges the Sun sort of circles around like a third a third of the way into the earth it just circles around there that would be sort of the idea right but the biblical teaching is that the Sun seems to at least from our perspective go around us not you know not do that kind of Flat Earth circuit and so Psalm 19 six seems to indicate this it says it's rising is from the end of the heavens it's circuit to the end of them to the end of them and there is nothing hidden from its heat so it's rising at least from our purses phenomenon all phenomenological language or this is just how it appears to humans you're not trying to describe the scientific exactness of the functions of the universe but it's described as is coming up from that location way on the edge but on the flat earth models the Sun never is way over there right on the flat earth models the sun's never touches the edge of the earth it doesn't work this is not a biblical model it's not giving respect to the to the scriptures it's just not let's talk about the word earth though because before we go further this is the thing you need to know and this honestly a lot of the Flat Earth verses would just melt away if people knew this one fact are you ready I have to drink my I have to drink my coffee first and I'll show you the cat cam there you go ho let me get my head out of the way that ah there's the cat cam there's the cat cam this is how you know you have professional-grade Bible study quality right here full strength all right here's what you need to know the word earth doesn't mean earth in the Bible it rarely means earth I mean very rarely means earth there are some places where it does where like I'll take you I'll take you there Genesis chapter 1 verse 1 I think hold on I did that wrong Genesis 1:1 I think that this is a text where the word earth is or is is a reference to like the whole whether it's globe or flat or whatever you think it's a reference to the whole thing to the whole thing right inclusively in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth but one of the ways in which we know it's a inclusive phrase is because it's just that that flate that phrase the heavens and the earth it's not the word earth it's the phrase the heavens and the earth then it's like okay this is an inclusive term for the whole universe ultimately but then very shortly after that we have examples even in Genesis of where the word earth doesn't mean what you're thinking because you're thinking of either is either the whole Flat Earth or a globe that's how we usually use the word but that's not what let's write the Hebrew word means most of the time here's an example in verse 10 God called the dry land earth wait a minute the dry land is earth it's just dry land so if it's below sea level it's not earth yeah that's that's that's one of the meanings of Verret if it's below sea level it's not a rat's at least in this context and this is how it's used all the time I mean way more often than you see it used to describe the entirety of what we would think of as either a planet or a flat domed thing so the dry land is or if this happens frequently other times also in Genesis I wanted I wanted to show you a few examples in Genesis in particular so you realize like even in the first book of the Bible there's multiple uses of the term the term earth in Genesis 11 verse 1 it says now the whole earth had one language and the same words the whole earth wait now the planet talks or whatever no no the whole earth here refers to people it's just it's all a bunch of people all the people on you know that God made that's the idea so whole earth sometimes Eretz is just referring to individuals it has nothing to do with physical ground at all in this case is one of those another one Genesis 13 verse 6 it's the same Hebrew word Arats same Hebrew word but it's translated differently and you'll understand why right away so that the land that's a rat's could not support both of them dwelling together for their possessions were so great that they could not dwell together who is this about this is talking as it says the land I rats if you were to translate this like and say well I rats is a retz earth is earth well then this would be literally saying the planet Earth could not support lot and Abraham together so they had to like depart from the land so what did in other words the solution would be lot you go to you go to one planet and I'll go to another planet like that would be the solution here but no obviously let's just means local area a local area of land and it's used like this all the time so the ends of the earth could simply mean far away from our local area that's just what the word earth means sometimes let me give you and this is too long for you to read I know that right this is the the dictionary of biblical languages that dbl abbreviate we abbreviate as that and it's this is literally what you're looking on your screen app is just the one entry on the word rats or earth to show you that it has a large number of uses and it shows you its different uses in different contexts sometimes it means a dry surface in contrast to water sometimes it means soil or dirt or a country or a region or territory or people rarely it does mean Earth in the modern sense that does happen but it's rare ok that's and you could maybe you could read that I don't know most you probably can't read that I just wanted you to know this words are more complex in their usage and their meanings than simply like earth means earth there's more to it than that and context shows us there's more to it than that let's look now at a video clip this video clip is from D knodel he's a popular flat earth guy he has a video called the Bible does say Flat Earth the Bible does say Flat Earth I've linked it in the video description I always try to link videos even if I disagree with them when I'm because it to you to make give you access to the content I'm saying I disagree with I only wish other people would have that same policy as they refute my videos all day long so here it is this is from D knodel and he's going to draw from the idea that the the book of Job is describing the nature of earth and look at his conclusions and then we'll talk about what is what is wrong about that in the King James it says it is turned as clay to the seal and they stand out as a garment now I have read over that many times and that's the problem a lot of times we just read over stuff and we don't look it up so I saw this verse pointed out by someone so I got my my Strongs Hebrew you know concordance with the Hebrew dictionary and I looked up the word turned doesn't mean to spin it means it's changed I tell people that means it's changed like I would change you know I would change potatoes into mashed potatoes if you change them into something else and then it says where it says it's turned or it's changed as clay to the seal the Hebrew word therefore Co means signet ring and so what would happen was in the old days that the kings or governors or leaders would have this special ring that identified them and what they would do with it when they see letters or Scrolls they would drop some wax or some clay on top of them and then they would press them down flat with that signet ring so when God was talking about the earth and how he formed it the picture the word picture he gives in Hebrew is that it was changed as clay to the signet ring plastic pushed down flat and when that happens - it causes an upturned edge it causes a border around it and you look at any seal there's gonna be a border around that press down you know piece of wax or clay or whatever it is you okay so what you guys can see here is they're saying hey this is this this passage in Joe when it describes clay and a signet ring it's describing the the cosmological design of the earth that's the whole point that's the whole point here right that's what he's getting at and so he quotes Jody job 38 14 I don't know if you noticed this this is a misquote they misquote a job 38 here he cleared it correctly earlier and then he misquoted in this clip from the video there's a word missing there is a word missing a very important word missing from this quote for some reason in their video I don't know if it was deliberate I don't think so but it's missing so he says hey it's like a signet here's actually a piece of clay that a signet was pushed against from ancient Israel right there's kind of an important one a recent discovery that's pretty important about verifying kings of Israel because we have good evidence to support the real the reality that there were these ancient kings of Israel at any rate that's the seal and so I get it but there's a problem almost no translations translate this as signet ring he says that should be translated as signet ring right it's just a he says it's really a signet ring no it's really not to be translated that way and that's why almost nobody does translate it that way so here's the same resource I used earlier dictionary of biblical languages and here's what they say under the word seal seal right it's you could look it up yourself it's two five nine seven that's the the the entry point it's the Strong's number two three six eight if you want to look up Strong's strong as that was not a great resource I'll talk about that in a minute it's not bad it's just not nearly as great as people think it is at any rate it's a seal signet implemented used an implement used as a sign of one's personal official identification marked by impressing in clay or wax worn on a cord around the neck or on the hand okay seal or signet now you might not notice this seal and signet are not the same thing right so look at the note and I highlighted this the note at the end it says note it's usually a cylinder seal design though if on the hand then a signet ring so if it talks about a seal on the hand it's a signet ring otherwise it's likely it's a cylinder design what is a cylinder design well it's one of these ancient seals we have lots and lots of them that we found there are these tiny little things and they would probably fit if you have a big hand you could probably put the seal in your fist and hide it it's that small so this the seal which is on the left part of your screen it's a cylinder what's on the right part of your screen is is clay and what they would do is they'd take the seal and they'd roll it over the clay and then it would take different shape that's what the verse is talking about in in in the book of Job here's another example of a cylinder seal this one's green but you can just see how like the intricate little they do a reverse image in the seal and then they just roll it over and this is this was very typical there's another example there's another example for you there now to support his case there's something fishy going on because to support his case D knodel what he does is he says I went to Strong's and Strong's tells me this is a signet ring and he tries to use Strong's which is a a Greek and Hebrew resource that we have I got one here all right this is Strong's this is everybody's first Greek and Hebrew resource right and it's it's big fat book and you can look up the numbers and all that I've got here I have over two different versions I have as well digitally but he says that he goes to Strong's and it says signet ring okay that would make it the ring version not the bracelet or the or the cylinder version I showed you but when you actually look up Strong's what does it say this is strong so okay this is on the screen for you it says that it's it occurs 14 times and the AV the authorized version King James translates it as signet nine times and seal five times and then it gives you the definitions seal signet signet ring Strong's doesn't tell you what it is in job it just says it has these different translations and it has different ways of you know being read in the English signet or signet ring or seal Strong's doesn't say what D knodel wants it to say I don't know why he's saying it does I don't I don't understand this look it up on your own go ahead strongest doesn't say that now there might be an old version of Strong's that I've never seen that has an errors in it because they have updated it over the years it's pretty old so maybe they've fixed an error there in which case he needs to get a new version that's always a possibility but there's there's more problems that was just the first problem okay it's it's it's probably a cylindrical seal that job is talking about in job 38 the second problem is the missing word okay I'm gonna put this on the screen again for you Jove 38:14 this is what Dean Odell puts up there this is what probably flatters people have seen this this video is how to a lot of use hundreds of thousands of used video I'm talking about here the D nodal one but if I go to job 38 14 do you notice the word that's missing let me see I'll go to you in just directly in the Bible here is the ESV which is not gonna be much different than most other versions here it is changed like clay under the seal it has changed its the word changed okay the word change is really important here it's really important here because we need to know when it's changed right this change is not like the earth was originally a blob and God when he created it did that no no the context of Jobe and now we will zoom out and look at two more verses to get context we'll see it has nothing to do with the you know physical cosmology of Earth it says here in verse 12 have you commanded the morning since your days began and caused the dawn to know its place that it that we the dawn the morning might take hold of the skirts of the earth and the wicked be shaken out of it it here being the earth right is changed like clay under the seal and its features stand out like a garment it's describing sunrise right just like these these pictures of let me put one up for you again of these cylinders how the light and the shadows on the clay they now show contours whereas before it was a flat piece of clay that had no contours now it has contours the idea is that as the Sun rises that the earth gains contour and all of a sudden it's more house it has depth at nighttime it's just you can't see you can't see all the bumps and everything on the ground it's too dark as the Sun comes up all the contours come up and and especially in the morning these strong stark shadows get cast all over the land that's all it's saying is since this change happens every day well a Dean wants to use it and some flatters people think they can use it to say that the earth has a bumpy Ridge around it like a clay signet ring like clay house when it has a signet ring push down on it but that's not the point at all in fact it's just specifically about the wicked right right it's it this the sunlight that comes up every morning it grabs ahold of the skirts of the earth and the wicked are shaken out of it this is picture right we don't think the Sun grabs the earth but it's the wicked are shaken out this is because and let me take you to a parallel passage this passage does relate to it here we go Jobe 24 verse 14 this explains that context of the wicked being shaken out why does the morning shake out the wicked well because even the book of Job same book it says the murderer rises before it's light that he may kill the poor and needy and in the night he's like a thief right the eye of the adulterer also waits for the Twilight saying no I will see any veils his face in the dark they dig through houses by day they shut themselves up they do not know the light so the whole idea here I meant to give you that boom there it is all right see the murder he rises before it's light that he may kill the poor needy in the night he's like a thief the adulterer waits for Twilight it's all about it being dark in the dark they dig through houses but then when the daylight comes they shut themselves up so they hide because they don't know the light and this is what job's talking about the Sun comes up right the contours of the earth of it made visible every single morning and the wicked gets shaken out or they go and hide because they're not going to do their wicked things there in the morning time when everybody can see them that's all job is saying job is not giving us cosmetology over the earth year it's just not related at all so everything about this this great discovery that he feels the Holy Spirit led him to is wrong everything about it's wrong from his use of Strong's from his his application to of this to cosmology and you don't need you didn't need to read ancient Greek or Hebrew in this case to know all you had to do is read the context this is a daily change when the Sun rises so let me let me give a quick announcement before we go to the footstool passages we're gonna do the footstool verses next but before we get there here's my quick announcement we are going to be doing in just over a month a month and a half I guess a apologetics conference and this apologetics conference is gonna involve a lot of the guys you know on YouTube David wood inspiring philosophy the woman at apologist my buddy John McCrae from what do you mean I'll be there and I think several others will be there I don't remember the full list off the top of my head here it's gonna be in Chicago Illinois April 24th and 25th and it's only 40 bucks to attend it's like a Friday night Saturday conference and check it out go to apologetic this is the first official announcement the website went live just like a couple hours ago so apologetic you can check it out if you're interested and I'd love to see you there I love to meet you shake your hand and and we're just seeking to stir people up bless the body and grow in our knowledge of the truth of Christ and our ability to defend it thoughtfully alright let's look at the next one the footstool vs. footstool vs. I'll be honest with you when I first heard about Flattr stuff it was these footstool versus that first jumped into my mind as oh no they're not they're not doing that are they was that was it occurred to me so please hear me out isaiah 66:1 thus says the lord heaven is my throne and the earth is my footstool there you go like gods obviously intending okay I'm not trying to make anybody feel comfortable here but it feels weird to me to think upon reading this verse that God's obviously intending to give us a physical literal cosmological descriptor scientifically accurate description of what the earth looks like if you could zoom out from it and look at it from a distance and no I don't think that's the case I don't think that's the case let me show you though what some people have done with this I have a picture for you this is the there it is this is the footstool image that I've seen presented by flat-earthers saying look the earth is his footstool and so foot stools are round and they're on pillars will talk about the pillars in a minute but notice the pillars that are there that's important we'll talk about that so the this is this is the case now let's just look at the verse in context a little bit I mean just the verse by itself the context of the surrounding words around footstool it says the heaven is my throne in earth the earth is my footstool does anybody in the Flat Earth community think that heaven is literally shaped like a throne but they ain't that many of them at least some of them in the community say that the earth has to be shaped like a footstool because of this verse but you don't take heaven is my throne literal but you take the earth is my footstool literal that doesn't really make sense I mean and if it's a literal footstool then doesn't that mean the God has like a literal feet that he puts on it I mean that would be a heresy this isn't even Christian theology anymore we're doing and imagine this how bigger God's hands if I'm gonna read the Bible like this which this is this is not the way you want to read it but if you're gonna read the Bible like this Isaiah 40 verse 12 it says that God has measured the waters in the hollow of his hand and marked off the heavens with a span a span is one hand distance right from here to here here to here that's my span it's saying that God's marked off the heavens with the span however big the heavens are literally that is exactly how big God's hand is or that's not what Isaiah is trying to say which is the reality of it no not at all this is metaphorical and this is in the same book the earth is his footstool he's measured the the waters in the whole of his hand the heaviness is thrown it's about God being sovereign it's not about the shape of the earth it's metaphorical God is sovereign he is sovereign here's another verse that relates first Kings chapter 8 verse 27 he says but God will God indeed dwell on the earth behold heaven and the highest heavens cannot contain you how much less this house that I have built you this is this is just to say that like there is no comparison to the Granger in the fullness of God and that of creation that there's just no comparison right it's not like he's heaven is a throne that God sits on in one verse in another verse his hand is the the length of the the width of the throne so he's sitting on the throw but he has a giant hand it just it doesn't make any sense guys it's it's silly because it's never meant to be read that way not by the original authors not by the original audience and not by you let's talk about the pillar verses pillars of the earth this is another one of those topics that comes up probably one of the biggest ones is First Samuel 2:8 where it says he raises up the poor from the dust he lifts up the needy from the ash heap to make them sit with the princes and inherit a seat of Honor for the pillars of the earth are the Lord's and on them he has set the world what is talking about the Flat Earth point would be that there's a spherical earth that are the the assuming that the spherical earth doesn't seem to have pillars right Lena now I would agree I would be like it's is a stretch to think that a globe has actual pillars somehow you could say there's pillars in the dirt or there's these like these like powerfully huge rock formations down towards the mantle or something like that but but yeah I get that that would be a stretch to think that but they would take these very literally there's actually pillars holding up and what are the pillars on foundations what the foundations on who knows but what is what is it actually saying it's it's actually an analogy is you read the context here it's an analogy to what happens early in the verse God's raising up the poor from the dust he lifts up the needy from the ash heap to make them sit with princes so now the poor are inheriting a seat of Honor they are they are getting leadership positions in the world and then it says for the pillars of the earth are the Lord's and on them he has set the world the idea here is that the pillars are the leading human beings in the world and God will exalt whoever he wants including the poor to rule in those places and King David is an example of this King David's an example of this where he can take this guy out of nowhere and then make him the king of Israel and make his line the ultimate that which leads to the Messiah so that's what I think this verse is talking about but there's other pillar verses as well job 26:10 which says I'll quote it to you here he has inscribed a circle on the face of the waters at the boundary between light and darkness the pillars of heaven tremble and are astounded at his rebuke so there's that pillars of heaven phrase pillars of heaven I and I know that this is going to trigger some of the people in the audience but if you have been around for my Bible studies which I have hundreds of hours of free Bible studies online that you're welcome to enjoy or hate as you as you wish but if you know I read things in context I try to understand the context if it's a poetic passage I want to look at it poetically well guess what Jobe is a poetic book the whole book is poetry like literally the whole book especially the speeches especially the speeches which is where we're at here in Jobe 26 it's very poetic the whole thing is extremely poetic and I think that we're gonna see that as we read more of Jobe real soon here when we get to the the cornerstone verse that they like to use so the pillars of heaven it just seems to be poetic you might just be talking about mountains pillars of heaven could just be talking about mountains they come up and there's the sky above them but they're like the the part of the earth that's lifting up the highest that could simply be all it's talking about here pillars of heaven it's not to be take not to be taken as though those things mountains are actually holding up the sky that would be a wooden literalism forced upon a poetic passage that probably is just talking about mountains in fact pillars occurs very very few times in the scripture the word pillar when it talks about pillars of the earth or pillars of the heavens and it seems that every single time that I can find it's always in a poetic context like a very poetic context so we should treat it as poetry if it's in that poetic context that's important that's just called good Bible study let's look at another verse what did I skip do I want to do that verse yeah Psalm 75 threes another example the same pillars one I'll just mention it in case it's on your mind really briefly and I'll give you a clue on how you can figure it out on your own so I'm seventy-five three when the Earth Tatars and all its inhabitants it is I who keep steady its pillars if you read the whole Psalm Psalm 75 like first Samuel it's speaking of leaders it's speaking of leaders leadership the pillars are here the leaders that God is going to he's gonna stand behind he's gonna hold them up while they're going through a lot of turmoil that while the earth is in upheaval so to speak so the earth here is groups of people and the pillars are the individuals who are leading them that's what it's talking about in the context of Psalm 75 so yeah let's look at the basis and cornerstone verses this is one particular verse job 38 verse 4 I hope this is helping you look if you're flat earth and you're thinking I just want to take the Bible and go where it goes well yeah then let's do it and here's another rule take the Bible and don't go where it doesn't go it's a good rule for you don't pretend it goes where it's not going here we go where were you when I gots no context most you know this so forgive me but joke 38 this is the end of the book of Job job and his friends have been complaining about each other the whole time job in in many places complaining about God and God comes and speaks to job and job 38 and he has a long speech we're in poem and it's all in poem he just asks job all these questions and he basically puts Joe in his place it's like when he's like who do you think you are well here in verse 4 Joe 38 4 he says where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth tell me if you have understanding who determined its measurements surely you know or who stretched the line upon it on what were its bases sunk and who laid its cornerstone so here we have foundation of the earth and we have cornerstone these two concepts and then some people would take this to mean well there's a literal foundation and there's a literal cornerstone and that a globe earth doesn't explain those things now my answer is just that all you have to do is continue reading all you have to do is continue reading and here we go reading this whole thing verse 7 and 8 it says when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy who shut the C's with doors when it burst out from the womb and when I made its clapping then I made clouds its garment in thick darkness its swaddling band and prescribed limits for its and here's the best part was done and set bars and doors if you flat earth if you want to take poetry to be literal scientific descriptions of the world around us then you need to believe not only that there's a cornerstone in foundations but you have to believe that God on the shores of all the continents that God has set bars and doors that block the sea from coming further than the then they're the coasts allow bars and doors you want to take it literally that's how you have to take it not only that there's more you have to say that God literally stretched a line upon the earth this is a measurement term up when you grab measuring tape and you measure a whole surface area like you're measuring out like you're building a project doing a building project and that's the whole concept it's just a poem about like making the earth like it's a building project right but what you have to say is that when God was making the earth he measured it with an incredibly long measuring line because you're gonna take verse five literally just like you take verse six literally just like you took verse four literally in which case you got to take verse seven literally bars and doors what's wrong it's just really bad Bible study techniques you just you don't do this with Scripture you let it say what it says and you don't push beyond you know most the time when people are going to the Bible to look for cosmology they're not finding cosmology they're finding verses that are talking about other things and they're saying that's cosmology and that's a problem that's a problem we have to be humble about these things read it in context and try not to go beyond the text of Scripture what it's actually saying alright yeah so job 38 just God saying hey I built the earth I made the earth I made it all and he's using in a poem that's an analogy as though it was like a construction project of someone making a building he calls Coast's bars and doors just because they blocked the sea from going up further let's look at the circle of the earth all right but first for for my my vocal people on the live chat who are always asking for more CAD cam how you doing pocket there she is I can't really reach her I kind of put the chair far away I need just wave at her all right well we're gonna get going now back to the topic here we go circle of the earth that's we're gonna talk about these circle of the earth versus and we'll start with proverbs 827 I hope you guys are having a good time hope you appreciate this this I know there's been a long time coming for me to do this topic I was gonna do it a long long time ago and I kept just setting it aside and putting it off but here you go I hope I hope it was worth the wait proverbs 827 when he established the heavens I was there when he drew a circle on the face of the deep we needed a circle on the face of the deep this is I you already know my answer right this is a poetic passage is in the book of Proverbs it's literally wisdom talking as if she was a real person who is there when God was was was making the worlds and there's things like here like he marked out the foundations of the earth we got marked them out like when you walk around with like sort of the people go who go before you do the construction and they mark out all the locations everything's gonna be at God marked them out first why did he do it it's know he's spoken into existence in the in the Genesis account here it's just it's just using a different term to talk about how God made it all and he made it well I made it thoughtfully but let me take you to another verse Isaiah 40 verse 22 this is a controversial verse it is he who sits above the circle of the earth and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers who stretched out the heavens like a curtain and spread them spread them like a tent to dwell in God he's sovereign is the point here now this word right here is the center of a massive back-and-forth debate in my opinion massive on the question of whether or not this is talking about a flat earth or if it's talking about a globe earth because circle could could it be a sphere could be you know the Hebrews didn't really have a good word for for something that was a sphere like a globe didn't really have a word for that yet they could have used a different word where they they would use it to talk about like a ball or a although wouldn't be like a basketball you're thinking of but it would be like say like throwing a rock or something like that they could use a different word and it's our city get into a big debate let me just say this the word to me seems indeterminate okay I think the word is indeterminate but I think that it's not about that anyways I don't think it's trying to tell you that the topography of the planet when it says that he sits above the circle of the earth it's just saying like when you look around around the horizon as far as your eyes can see God is sovereign over that that's it I I don't really you know I used to think maybe isaiah 40:22 was talking about like it was good good evidence for a globe you know in the text of scripture i'm not sure that i would say that i don't know i guess i would need more a more concrete you know ancient ancient biblical languages evidence to say that kind of thing from what i can tell it just seems indeterminate and it just seems like it's not even talking about the shape of the planet is talking about the horizon god sits above the horizon everything you can see he's sovereign over it that's the whole point here that's the whole point here now if you think no this word means flat disk mike isaiah 40:22 absolutely means flat disk well the same word is used in job 22:14 and i'm gonna push back on you and say you can't take it that way right this is the exact same word thick clouds veil him so that he does not see and he walks on the vault of heaven that's the same word actually in hebrew it's the same word as isaiah 40:22 so the earth is it has a circle and you're gonna take that to mean it's flat well and it has these edges but if you do that with this word and you say it's demanded by the word well job 22:14 says god walks on the vault of the heaven but every flatters person I've ever seen they think that the heaven is a dome a solid dome so they think heaven can be at least a half of a globe and that can use the same word as isaiah 40:22 but when it's talking about the earth it has to mean flat this means guess what you're not really doing Bible study you're pushing your teachings on to the text of Scripture at that point and you need to just stop and realize it's not even trying to give you the all the details you might be looking for let's talk about the corners of the earth corners of the earth Revelation 7:1 this is a whole nother section bunch of verses on the corners of the earth here it says after this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth they're standing at the four corners holding back the four winds that no wind might blow on the earth or sea against or sea or against any tree notice again that even in Revelation the word earth is not being used to represent the planet why would they have to say earth or sea right the word doesn't mean planet when you see it you can't assume that it means planet or it means the whole entirety of a Flat Earth model now I just mean to the ground right it means the dry ground that people live on so no man no one's blowing on it or the sea then I saw actually me that that's the whole verse I want to quote there so here we have four angels saying the four corners of the earth now on the on the Flat Earth model this gets a little fishy because on some of the flatters models you've got a flat earth that that doesn't have any corners but on others they read these verses and they say oh no no we need to we need to bring corners into our into our flat earth design and so let me just bring up a picture here I didn't put it in my presentation but I can't real quick this is you know one other Flat Earth model okay so here we have like a circular earth and it's sort of complicated it kind of comes down and it goes up and I don't know how it goes up so much with water like wouldn't anyway doesn't water it isn't water flat isn't that like an important thing in the Flat Earth view anyway then it's got these four Earth's of four corners and the angels around the corners so somehow the world is circular and it has corners and you start to see the problem with trying to say that that I'm gonna take all these descriptions as literal even the Bible's like that's circular it's got corners because it's not trying to give you a physical description what are the four corners well the King James has it nice that's four quadrants of the earth it's just four areas let me give you a couple other verses that talk about the same thing and I will support my claims job 37 verse three he says under the whole heaven he lets he lets it go and his lightnings to the corners of the earth okay so this is another corners of the earth passage his light he's ruling to the corners of the earth here's a verse you could have a Flat Earth model and it would work with that earth that Flat Earth model Revelation 7:1 it could work with that Flat Earth model it doesn't clearly teach it but it could work with it but you can't keep doing that because when you hit Isaiah 11 your whole model explodes Isaiah 11 12 says he will raise a signal for the nations and will assemble the banished of Israel and gather the dispersed of Judah where's going to gather the Israelites and his people from from the four corners of the earth wait let's look at that photo again that picture again so wait you're telling me where these angels are there's Israelites living there they've passed through the ice wall they got carried from Babylon away to the ice wall somehow right they made it all the way there and there's angels that are apparently and all this stuff right and that's where wind comes from because we're gonna take that as literally as possible with theirs it can't just be saying that you know we have Wednesday below north south east and west it's it's got to be taken this way wow that's not yeah I don't even know what to say okay Isaiah 1112 shows us that Israel has been at the four corners of the earth and God will bring them back Flat Earth you make no sense it's about quadrants Jesus talks about this to Matthew 24 verse 31 it says and he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call and they will gather his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other now here the four winds it's just from four directions right from one end of heaven to the other means all over the place it's not like we're like there's two ends of heaven because in fact Heaven's got pillars oh wait no no it's it's it's it's circular no wait no now it has to have ends two of them only two ends so how does how does have in shape with only two ends it's not giving you a description of the cosmology of the world Jesus is just saying hey it's gonna gather them from all over the place that's that's holy saying alright let's talk about the next one believe it or not there's a couple more foundations of the earth the this phrase foundations of the earth Micah chapter 6 verse 2 it says here you mountains the indictment of the Lord and you enduring foundations of the earth for the Lord has an indictment against his people and he will contend with Israel so foundations of the earth is definitely in the text of Scripture I hope you're getting the idea so far that the Bible doesn't seem to be trying to give us cosmology through these types of phrases but let's let's just gather a couple verses where this sort of thing is talked about ok Isaiah 51 verse 16 it says and I've put my words in your mouth and have covered you in the shadow of my hand establishing the heavens and laying the foundations of the earth and saying desire on you are my people okay laying the foundations of the earth so there's foundations of the earth at least and these very prophetic and even poetic sections like the one we're about to look at job 38 let's look at job 38 again and let me just say this let's say that I let's say that foundations of the earth are quite literal there's these actual foundations the earth is talking about the surface land and there's these foundations under it why aren't the foundations just more earth under earth on a globe is there any reason why that can't be the explanation no this would fit it doesn't I'm not saying it teaches a globe model I'm saying it would fit a globe model just as easily as as it would fit any model that includes any kind of foundation you don't have to have these pillars in their foundation the pillars are obviously not meant to be taken literally the foundation if it's literal can be explained with a globe or a flat earth equally I don't see the problem there but then again here we are that same passage where were you and I laid the foundation of the earth God includes the foundation of the earth amongst things that are obviously meant to be symbolic right it's bases right literally stretching the line upon the earth a cornerstone and then my favourite actual bars and door if I can find it actual bars and doors bars like I can't find it oh there it is bars God's saying that the ocean has bars holding back to the waterway bars don't hold back water yeah cuz it's not meant to be literal it's not meant to be that way I hope you see it in context alright let's let's just say what God's saying is he just set the earth on its foundations in other words it's secure the earth is secure he made it solid you can stand on it it's secure that's the idea I mean I don't know if you take that for granted but I'm kind of happy that God made the earth secure it's kind of an important issue and he gets credit for it and that's what the Bible is doing is it's giving God credit for the things you take granted take for granted all this Hebrew and Greeks making my English fail alright let's look at the next one which is watered under the earth this is the last one no no no no it's not oh gosh man how many of these things do I have okay water under the earth not that much more Psalm 136 verse 6 it says to him who spread out the earth above the waters and for his steadfast love endures forever some would take this to say hey even even some scholars everything this is obviously talking about not the oceans but this other secondary water supply that's a deep deep deep beneath the earth because the earth has like earth and then there's like foundations or pillars maybe and there's water down there somewhere and there's another foundation down below that and it starts to get into this weird thing well what is this actually talking about let's look at another verse and I think it will help us make it more clear Exodus 24 God says you should this is just a hint I'm walking you to it I have a really good verse that really helps but that's next let me walk you there patiently it says you shall not make for yourselves a carved image or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above or that is in the earth beneath or that is in the water under the earth there's the water under the earth right the context here is the Ten Commandments and God's like look don't make any idols and he says don't make idols of things in heaven of things on earth or if things under the earth the water under the earth in particular things from the water under the earth this is clearly talking about stuff in the ocean the the water under the earth is just the oceans that's what it's talking about or else the important command against making graven images it doesn't include fish or and they did have fish gods right Dagon he's a fish God and he's telling him don't make idols of course he's gonna make sure to say under the water under the earth if he's talking about the ocean but they wouldn't have any concept of what might be in some sort of like primordial waters and some sort of anyway it's just it's just weird now like let's just let the Bible be the Bible but let's not try to force it into some people just want it to be weird anyway we need to go look at one more verse for this water under the earth thing Psalm 24 verses 1 & 2 it says the earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof the world and those who dwell therein for he's founded it upon the Seas and established it upon the rivers the terminology of the water under the earth is weird to us because we don't think of the earth as being the ground that is dry and above sea level but again that is how they're conceiving of the word earth it's not that they don't think there's more dirt below that they're just talking about the habitable dry stuff on the top above sea level so the earth is above or upon the waters it is over the waters this is it's clear in the text here why because of this rivers verse right established it upon the rivers way the earth isn't upon the rivers but when you're walking around and you walk next to a river that rivers flowing but you're safe because there's earth a pond or above the river this is not talking about secret deep underground rivers that like God established the earth on no no he is just saying you know back to Genesis right that there's there's it's all water God has the dry land separate from the water than the flood he has the dry land again separating from the water and then he maintains it that way and he's constantly getting credit for it throughout the text of Scripture it's the waters under the earth is the ocean and the rivers and anything that when you're walking on land you're not you're not under water that's earth above water that's all it means so I hope that helps man I hope that helps you guys um I'm gonna share a clip though here's another clip from Dino tools video and I thought it was a good illustration of bad Bible study techniques I'm sorry Dino de lime not trying to insult your brother I don't have an axe to grind against you but your videos propagating misinformation and it's hurting people and there's just so many people caught up in this thing they need to know the Bible is not pushing you down this road of Flat Earth something else is here you go so I'm reading this passage right because I'm gonna talk about the marriage supper and that's all in revelation 19 and I'm just reading the chapters before and after and I read this and and the Holy Spirit got my attention because it was like they went up on the breadth of the earth and the question came in my head why doesn't it say they just why does it just say they went up on the earth so I looked up the word breath and this was one of amazing revelation because this is confirmation of job's 3814 the word in the Greek when it was originally written is in the Strong's dictionary it's number four one one four Greek it is the word Plato's PLA t OS plateaus well immediately when I saw that I thought wow that sounds like our word or a root word of our word plateau which I know means a level of flat land elevated land but level and flat so I when I look this plateaus in the Strong's Greek dictionary is to find that is width in breadth but then it says that it's from the root word for one one six plat twos and here is the exact I'm reading and I'm looking at the Strong's dictionary right here it says plat to spread out Flint I was blown away when I saw this he was blown away when he saw it um okay here's the thing first off let me just say this before I explain that this passage you might be thinking Mike there's all these things you're ignoring the earth is flat the earth is flat the earth is flat look I I don't care that's not the question of this stream the question of this stream is does the Bible declare and teach that the earth is flat and I'm going to your versus your chief verses and I'm not done yet I'm gonna head Daniel and I'm gonna hit the vision that Jesus had that or the experience was the temptation that Jesus had we're gonna hit that in a second but I'm going to your verses to show you that the Bible is not your source for the Flat Earth you're getting it somewhere else you could say well ancient near-eastern people they believed it fine but don't say the Bible's teaching it say they believed it you could say oh there's all these all this evidence I have all this proof I did these experiments fine go ahead but don't say the Bible is teaching it leave the Bible out of this that's what I'm saying I'll leave my Bible alone please okay let's let's look at this passage this revelation is here talking about I'm going to actually mention this in passing before we get to the whole idea of the plateaus and plateaus and plateaus and plateaus we're gonna look at the four corners of the earth right Satan's release this is more confirmation that corners of the earth doesn't mean literal corners he'll deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth Gog and Magog to gather them together for battle this is the idea where Satan comes out deceives the whole world effectively the whole world and he gathers a whole bunch of people to rally against God and against Christ this is like Psalm 2 finally totally fulfilled and here we have them from there where of the nations there at the corners of the earth which means they're in the four general directions they're all over the earth that's all it's saying unless you think massive nations are living where those angels are standing in your in your Flat Earth Map on the corners of the earth like there's huge nations there and Satan's gonna bring him on in where have these people been this whole time like why can't we reach in with radio signals I'm sure never mind I'm sure there's an explanation that I just I'm not smart enough to think of but let's move on I want to talk about the Greek the way this Greek is used first he says the Greek comes from the word Plateau okay comes from the word Plateau that's a plateau okay if you're gonna say it comes from her plateau all you're saying is that the heat the book of Revelation says Satan gathered together the armies and they marched up on a plateau it has nothing to do with the shape of the cosmology of the entire earth nothing to do with it and let's talk about plateaus he says that plateaus I I'm gonna pronounce it the way I was taught Greek that plateaus its root word is plateaus and he takes you to what he calls the Strong's version of plateaus which means to spread out flat that this is strong so I'm showing you Strong's on the screen plat OU's it said it's translated as wide once and it gives you one definition for the word broad it doesn't mean to flatten out it's not a verb it doesn't mean that I don't know where this guy's getting his Greek stuff from but it's like I I don't think doing it on purpose I think he's so excited about what he's what he's learning that he recklessly grabs stuff and just starts using it to try to prove his case look up strong I put a link in the description so you can check his statements about plat twos on on your own there's a link to Strong's available for free online you can check on your own that's just not what it means it's just not what it means my friend what we're really getting though the real issue the real issue why you can't use revelation let me show you again why you cannot use revelation is because earth does not mean planet right earth does not always mean planet they gather together verse nine they march up over the broad plane of the earth this he's taking this phrase broad plane of the earth as though it means I'm describing to you the physical design of the entire whether it's a planet or a flat earth aquarium domed I don't know what the term is for this I forget I know there's a term you know I'm not I'm not I'm not with you there's not a description of the entire from coast to coast and from edge to edge of the earth it's just saying they marched up on a broad plane that was on the earth that's it that's all it's saying you know what this is this is probably the valley of megiddo that's that's a valley that has been used frequently by large armies in Israel or going towards Israel over the just over the generations right now it's just got a bunch of farmland it's actually really beautiful if you ever go to Israel just looking out at the volume I get was really pretty you can look at it from Mount Carmel you can look down onto the valley of megiddo there's just a very wide area when you have large armies they need very wide areas to march and that's all Revelation is saying is look it's a big army because they have to write march up on a broad plain of the earth that's it that's all it's saying there's nothing more to it let's look at what's considered the best the best flat earth versus all together in an article quoted by lots of flat-earthers this is considered the best verses and so we're gonna look at them now are you ready you already know I mentioned earlier it's Daniel Daniel's vision in Daniel 4 I say Daniel is in the Book of Daniels vision it's actually not Daniel having the vision it's Nebuchadnezzar but here it says the tree grew up and became strong and it describes a tree but look at how it describes the tree it's top reached to heaven and it was visible to the end of the whole earth its leaves were beautiful and it goes on talking about this this tree it was visible all the way to the end of the whole earth and then we have another verse to support this idea in verse 20 it says the tree you saw which grew and became strong so that its top reached to heaven and it was visible to the end of the whole earth well we've got two issues here end of the whole earth doesn't mean edges of the earth I've shown that conclusively if you want to argue against me you're delusional like you're literally just you're just stuck and you can't change your mind regardless of the evidence into the earth doesn't mean and edges edges of the the domed flat earth but there's another problem it's a dream right look at how this is introduced go back to verse 10 same chapter I just went 1 verse up from the verse we read earlier the visions of my head as I lay in bed were these dude had a dream he didn't have a revelation of cut the cosmology of a solid dome and flat planet he just didn't have it this is not a flat earth verse you can't use it to support that it's a dream that's all it is so it was visible to the ends of the earth that just means was visible far away that's all it means and it was a dream so it has just no bearing at all the other verse and this is supposed to be the best verses to a guy who just studies the Bible and teaches it all the time it's like I read this know like wait why are people why are people believing this are they are they paying this little attention to scripture and they think they're being faithful and loyal to the Word of God but they are not even checking the context they're just so excited they're so used to taking verses out of context that they don't realize they're doing it all over the place here we go last one and then we're going to your guys questions it says again the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory and he said to him this is Satan in Jesus and Satan says all these I will give to you if you will fall down and worship Me and Jesus has begun Satan and I like when he says that can't wait for him to say it again so the devil takes him up to a very high mountain so he's up on a high mountain right and he shows him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory so this is a description of Jesus looking out based on Flat Earth views right looking out and he sees every every kingdom or every nation that's on the planet at the time or on the on the Flat Earth at the time and he sees them all from that mountain there where in Israel in Israel now there's a few problems with this let me walk you through walk you through them individually first off Jesus's temptation was 40 days right 40 days now if you're gonna say he was taken up so he walked somewhere he walked there he's not a car isn't a teleporter he's using the no reason to think he is and if you're gonna say teleporter then I'm gonna say vision okay so don't say he teleported to some super high mountain we've never heard of he's in Israel go look it up on your own what are the highest mountains in Israel the highest one is Mount Hermon that is all the way up in the north of Israel way too far for Jesus to go during this 40-day temptation because Jesus is currently south of Jerusalem in the wilderness where John was doing his baptizing how do I know that because I read the Bible in context Jesus is there he's south of Jerusalem Jerusalem is in southern Israel it's like it's like not even halfway up Israel to the north and Israel shaped kind of like California right so the very top of Israel is Mount Hermon Mount Hermon actually a large portion of it the majority of it is outside of Israel that's how that's how far up north it is alright let's continue he can't walk very far the highest mountain is way too far away what are the highest mountains in his area well we're talking with Jerusalem it's two thousand four hundred seventy four feet it's on a mountain yeah Mount Scopus near Jerusalem two thousand seven hundred ten feet that is not very high look I live in California we the land of high mountains we got some of the highest mountains around two thousand feet is not high not by our standards so most likely he couldn't have gotten to a mountain that was over 3,000 feet or if it was maybe 3,300 feet at the most if he like hoofed it and got to one of the local mountains that was within any kind of walking distance with his forty days temptation to be able to get there and back and at one point he's in Jerusalem so he can't go too far um yeah guess what you know you may say ancient people had never climbed up like Mount Everest or something yeah but this isn't Mount Everest there is no Mount Everest in Israel there's nothing even remotely what we would consider to be a really really big mountain or high mountain I should say so that means that the Israelites had already been on all these mountains and they had already seen and the people at the time they already knew you can't see the whole key all the kingdoms of the world from any location they had already been on these locations so that already the the first century reader isn't thinking that Jesus went up to this like crazy like they know the area there from Israel there from Jerusalem they know the topography of the land alright let me give you what I think really is going on in this passage Jesus has taken up to a high mountain he showed all the kingdom of the world for one thing it's Satan and Jesus how can Satan show him the kingdom of the world well through some supernatural means I mean how can he show him I mean it's we know he can't see it physically they know he couldn't see it physically even if the earth is supposedly flat you can't just look out and see China from the US right like I mean I'm sure you've tried some of you guys you got up on a mountain you tried it you can't so how is he seeing these things there's some kind of supernatural thing going on oh but no no no Mike it's clearly saying the earth is flat okay well let me you know you bring up Luke for I raise you John crazy the Gospel of John where Nathaniel becomes a disciple of Jesus because Jesus saw him sitting underneath I believe it was a fig tree I think it was a fig tree anyway Nathaniel sitting under this tree and Jesus had somehow seized him Nathaniel comes to Jesus and he says behold an Israelite in whom in whom is no guile and Nathaniel's like how do you know me you don't know me and he says truly I say to you I saw you when you were sitting under the fig tree now if you're a flatterer Nathanael should have told Jesus duh of course you did because the earth is flat because you can see any distance as long as you're high enough why does this surprise Nathanael because even back then they know you can only see so far in the story you can only see so far no matter what shape the earth is in so he says you you're really him and he's like bowing to Jesus and he's trusting in Christ he believes he's the Messiah of Israel why because he had a supernatural ability to see Nathanael from a distance so how is it that Jesus sees these kingdoms well versus in context and through understanding who Christ is and who Satan is it's not a surprise and the last question before we go to your guys issues is this then why on earth did Satan take him up to a very high mountain and yes to them a very high mountain is not what we would generally think of us as a high mountain it's just culture differences why would he take them up to a high mountain I think the issue here is theological it's not topographical its theological what's the theology of it throughout an inspiring philosophy has a video where he talks about this - and he does a good job with it it talks to the Bible in the Old Testament talks about how there's these revivals in Israel but there was this one persistent sin that happened to over and over again over and over again and it was the high places the kings of Israel they would even have revivals like Hezekiah or Josiah and they'd have these great revivals and the people of God you know really coming back to to Yahweh but it would almost all the time it would say but they didn't remove the high places that was the big sin they didn't remove the high places what were the high places well up on these mountaintops low mountaintops around Israel they would have altars to false gods and they would sacrifice to these false gods all the time these were the high places Jesus in the wilderness he has taken up to what very possibly is one of the locations of these false God worship things that would go on all the time and Satan Timms him to worship ultimately Satan because the worship of false gods is the worship of demons and Satan ultimately and he says no what we have in the wilderness temptations is Jesus he succeeds where Israel failed they failed in the wilderness right they failed when they wanted food and didn't want to wait on God for that they failed when when it was trusting him about entering the promised land they failed when they were tempted to sin in the wilderness there when they built the the golden calf and even after that when they did other sinful things Jesus succeeds every time where they fail that's the picture of the temptation of Christ the theological meaning Jesus he's the sinless one where we have sinned and fallen short that's what's going on that's why he's on a high place I believe and we're gonna go to your questions right now okay so I I hope that helps ma'am I don't know how you I don't know how you can if you're still flattered do me a favor cross those verses off your list at least the ones where you said boy Mike you made it you made a solid case and I think I think you're right I don't think I can use that for my Flat Earth views at least cross those off your list William Dean says can you explain how Matthew 4:8 works on a sphere you're welcome I just did Sarah Hilton I'm a substitute teacher at a public high school for two years I've allowed students to listen to their own choice of music in their own earbuds while they work recently I realized some of them listened to sinful music I'll continue to let them will God hold me accountable for the synonym you for the sin the music may lead them to I don't think so Sarah but I mean some there's all sorts of challenging moral dilemmas we have in life I don't see how you can choose what music they're allowed to listen to I don't really know if I feel like that's like the appropriate thing to do so yeah I'm not sure I'm not sure what the right answer there is Sarah I really don't know that's a good question pray about it don't violate your conscience before the Lord but don't be but don't let your solution be as bad as the problem if that makes sense I hope you get what I mean their bacon bear says Mike do you think we live on a globe yeah I do I do although this is this is not the question I'm asking tonight I'm not asking what shape is the thing we live on I'm asking what is the Bible teaching here zoko says who should we direct our prayers to I think Matthew 6:6 Jesus says to direct prayers to the Father in secret but I grew up with everyone ending prayer with in Jesus name Amen in Jesus name is not required on the ending of your prayers I like praying in Jesus name I mean I pray in Jesus name whether I say it's in Jesus name or not because it's through him I have access to the Father so I'm praying through through the name of Christ every time I pray because I'm in Christ and I'm redeemed by Christ and he is my mediator so I'm always praying in Jesus name whether I say the phrase or not I like saying in Jesus name just a preference I think it I think it's nice but no people don't need to and I don't worry if they don't let's see as long as they're praying in Christ whether they say the phrase or not is the isn't the issue Jesus does talking about prayer to the Father prayer is generally directed to the father in this in the scriptures but there are times where Jesus has prayed to as well and I don't think there's a problem with praying to him or even addressing a part of the Holy Spirit I don't think there's kind of like that strict rule I do think there is a general general practice of praying to the Father that we see in Scripture that maybe that should represent of her life generally pray to the Father to Jesus or the Holy Spirit if you feel so inclined on occasion that would be there's no command there but it would just be kind of teleporting the examples into your your practice let's see well Xena em says question isaiah 40:22 says circle of the earth it doesn't use the word for ball but on Isaiah 22 18 he uses the word for ball why didn't I say I use the word for ball or sphere when talking about the earth I think the answer would be let's say that you're right and that the word for ball that we do see in Isaiah 22 18 he says I'm gonna throw you like like a like a ball is he describes the nation gonna throw him like a ball some people say well that's because those balls wouldn't have been what you're thinking of like a soccer ball and their answer is well you know like if you if you it'd be more like a hacky sack you know it wouldn't have a spherical design and so if it used a more descriptive term it would have been a lumpy bumpy mass like a like a roundish rock but it wouldn't have described the earth as a sphere properly and that may be the reason maybe it would be a bad impression or my current view is that Isaiah 42 just isn't trying to tell us the shape of the planet it's just talking about the horizon and that God is sovereign above all of us everywhere you look around that's the horizon everything you can see God is sovereign above it all that's the idea I just don't think it's trying to give us cosmology that would be Mike my current view my current view I used to think it was supporting a spherical earth but I'm not sure that I can substantiate that now yakko Krueger or Jacob Kruger says Joshua 10 verses 12 through 14 did God stop the Earth or the Sun like we are told if like we were told the Sun Stood Still how can the earth come to a stop or not come to a stop on our time reading the he'sjust robably or second language um yeah not that guy couldn't do it but that's not what science tells us yeah so for the Joshua passage I've really spent a lot of time on that in the past and this is unrelated to the Flat Earth of you and flat-earthers you need to realize like you can't use a verse about geocentrism and say that it proves the earth is flat like that's irrational like it's literally irrational that's like me trying to prove the Trinity by quoting a verse about omniscience right or omnipotence that doesn't prove the Trinity I need verses that prove the Trinity which I have in spades but I need to prove it with verses that talk about that issue so this is a geocentrism thing I think it's just describing the way it looked to the people now did it did it just look that way to them or did it actually physically happen in the real world in which case how do we explain that and I I mean all I can say is if it physically really happened then it was just a miracle like it defied the laws of physics and if not defied I should say superseded them God can supersede the laws of physics just like if I let go of this this will fall to the ground but if I catch it I mean I'm different I'm super seeing seating the law of gravity here with other things so God could just make it happen and that would make it a bigger miracle than they ever realized it was that's for sure in joshua ten but that would also imply that it was global that everybody in the world was experiencing it not just them if it was just a visual thing like he just visibly he made it appears that the sun stopped well for everybody else it it went on in a different fashion i don't i don't lean that way but if it was that then i wouldn't expect the rest of the world to even be aware of it anyway the interesting question Yucko i I would want to really think about it more Nick L Olson says if the bible did say the earth is flat would you believe the earth is flat you dick that's a really good question and i am to be really honest with you guys i was asking myself that and i thought i don't know and is that yeah the thing is it's partially because i have this category in my head i know and i know i'm stepping on a lot of toes and I say this I'm gonna give you my honest answers here I just category in my head that the that I would I would consider it at least potentially acceptable in principle that God just met the people there with their bad understanding of the world in order to communicate theological truths to them that he decided not to teach them about the real nature of the universe he just decided to teach some theological truths and meet them there with what they understood so when he's talking about the earth he's just saying look I just want them to know I made it I know what they think about it is wackier weird and in two thousand years they're gonna be thinking differently about it but I'm just gonna meet him where they're at and then you know and if God brought the word to us today and he talked about like quantum physics or something well in another tooth years we might find out that we were wrong about quantum physics and this could cause problems because different generations would be rejecting the Bible for different reasons I mean we today would be all excited that there's all this clarity and there about quantum physics and and the the globe of the earth and the orbit of the Sun and Saturn the moons and stuff like that we could talk about that and be excited about it but for thousands of years it would actually dissuade people from trusting the Bible and it would backfire even though it was true so I I have a category where it's like yeah I know I could see how that's a potential possibility but I don't like that view and I don't hold that view do you get that that's important for you to know I know I'm gonna get reamed on this but mostly from people who aren't gonna hear me in context I don't like that view and I don't hold that view but I would consider that view much more seriously if I thought that the Bible was truly teaching a flatter earth because I don't think the earth is actually flat now if the earth is actually flat then I would want to have evidence to prove it but this is unrelated today's to today's video the evidence put forward by flat earthers while it's very convincing and interesting to them is very poor evidence in my opinion when you try to look at it on its own I hope that helps man Nick it's these are some of the struggles that we're here we are humans trying to work through divine issues and and God give us wisdom as we sort of muddle our way through some of it floor 20 says first Kings 20 verse 35 God seemingly told a prophet to hit another then seemingly lie about how he was injured to a hog why is this I'm so confused thanks for the help thanks for all your teaching I this is that this is the trying to remember this passage I'm gonna pass on this question floor because I just can't remember the details of the passage and I don't want to I don't like taking stabs at answers that are you know where I'm just guessing at things so Darth Vegas is question for Mike how do flat-earthers explain why the other planets in our solar system are round but not the earth I'm I don't remember I think I've heard them explain at one time but I don't recall good question unrelated to today's topic or video directly the content or the purpose of the video but it's a good question it is strange to think that we have you know seemingly have a around although some might say the moon is not round they might say that it's flat - because it only has one point that faces at us maybe they have that view maybe they think I don't know what they think this conversation says have you ever heard of Michael Heizer he says the creation account in Genesis teaches a flat earth with the dome sky I'm not sure if he actually teaches that to be honest honest conversations there is a whole group of guys that think the Bible teaches a Flat Earth and I think that their primary reason I think the number one reason they think the Bible teachers of Flat Earth is that they think the people in biblical times believed in a flat earth so they're sort of transporting the their opinion of what people at the time thought onto the text of Scripture they thought this in Babylon so it's going to be affirmed in Scripture they thought this in these other places I know that I know there's more to it than that but I do think that's one of the big reasons and this is why it's it's a newer move to believe that the Bible teaches a Flat Earth at least in some scholarly communities because they think hey we've discovered it new info about Babylon new info about ancient Sumeria and things like that and they all believe the Flat Earth so with a solid dome therefore so does the Bible teach that as well I don't think so I think that the Bible can even use some of the same words as those other cultures but when you look at the verses in context it doesn't seem to support that to me the question of the solid dome the Rukiya I have a lot more homework I want to do on that one day God willing I'll do a video don't rush me it may be a year away or more I have no idea because I have lots of things cooking right now Christian Bible study says if stars are placed oh oh let me just add this so I don't know how much of what Michael Heizer is saying is based upon verse by verse x2 Jesus and how much of it is based upon transporting ancient near-eastern his opinion of ancient Near Eastern views onto Scripture I don't know how much that is what's the mix let's see Christian Bible study if stars are placed in the expanse or firmament in Genesis 1 where is the water above it is the infinite infinitely expanding universe pushing water away I think the in I guess I'll do video and one day on this I think the firmament is just talking about the sky I don't think he's talking about a solid dome that has stars like stuck in it but I think it's a flexible term that can be used to talk about the sky really nearby or the sky really far away just like the word heaven can be talked talking about like you throw a rock it's technically in heaven you go up to the clouds that's heaven you go up to the moon that's heaven you go up to God's actual throne or dwelling place or where his presence is manifest and where angels are worshiping him that's also heaven same word different uses I think I think Furnham it seems to be used in a flexible fashion yeah so yeah I think the water above the firmament are to the clouds and I think that a strong case can be made for that and it makes the most sense you're describing you know Genesis is explaining what people are looking at they look around they see they see water in the sky that falls down those are clouds they know the rains coming from the clouds they're not that stupid and that puts the firmament in that Genesis account below the clouds and birds seem to fly in it as well so yeah let's see number 11 from Lu graduate 100 why are people still teaching a flatter since the Bible teaches the earth isn't flat people teach all sorts of things available doesn't teach and you know people teach stuff that the Bible teaches things that doesn't teach and it's never going to stop the question for us is am I being roped into unbiblical views or am I being biblical and we each have to ask that chou-heung cat that's a great name chou-heung cat says how could we be orbiting the Sun if it wasn't around until day four even a even if you take a strict like seven-day creation view of Genesis week is we could easily be orbiting the Sun if it wasn't around till day four we just we just weren't orbiting it until day four I mean it's it's a miraculous moment-by-moment creation event so I don't think that that's a challenge to that view personally dos Santos in Thailand says thank you for your ministry Mike you're welcome my privilege and honor I thought I heard a while ago that you would be doing a video on the physics of heaven always that still the works yeah yeah yeah that's it I set it aside I start all these projects I do intended to get to the physics of heaven that is a very problem book I don't recommend anybody read it or learn from it and I'm concerned because it's been endorsed by some prominent leaders in in Bethel in particular Thalia Koosman says Mike I think the Flat Earth view of how Sun and Moon move is not just a circle but more like a spiral it goes in a circle daily but spirals out and in through a year yeah and I've seen one graph I couldn't find it or I would have put it on the screen for you guys I've seen one graph that kind of like had a more complicated movement of the Sun in the moon but the Sun the moon still did not start for instance in Psalm 19 like from if they wanna take the edge of the earth literal from the from the edge the ice wall of the earth and then travel over to another ice wall and then come back and start over again it it doesn't do that if you want to take that wooden literal view I don't see any flatterers models doing that so they're not that's not a biblical Flat Earth model in other words whatever they want to say about unplugged says Mike Genesis 1 says light was created on day 2 plants trees and animals day 3 but Sun Moon and stars day 4 yeah this is a different question about the order of the order of creation and how we interpret Genesis and I personally am on the fence on some of these questions so I don't I don't I'm and I know for some of you this question is really burning on your heart I'm sorry that I can't be a better resource for you on this but I can't answer questions I don't know the answers to and so continue to seek answers be patient with it don't freak out about this don't let your whole faith race to punt rest upon you coming to what is in all honesty a very complicated and challenging and wide area of research I say take your time be patient trust the Lord as you walk through it and if one day I get clarity I will share it with you guys Jordan filler says thanks for putting out biblically sound content there's strong evidence for the age of the earth what does the Bible's have to say about the age of the earth and does it agree or clash with science same question there I am persuaded that it is I will say this although I can't answer all the questions about interpreting Genesis and the creation accounts in the scripture I am convinced that the age of the earth is not really a problem there that there's there's like a huge variety of a huge range of possibility for the age of the earth on a biblical view I know a lot of people don't agree with me there but that is my conclusion so far that's one conclusion I've come to Steve Sampson says oh hey and I'm here when it's live no question just a big thank you to Mike that's great Steve I'm glad you could join I'm glad all you guys could join it's fantastic to have you do this w be here with me while I do this I pray this video goes out to a lot of people helps a lot of people I think some people are there love for the Word of God is being used as a tool to get them to suck be sucked into this Flat Earth thing and let me just say we need to separate the Bible from the flat earth movement these two things are not related you wanna be flat earth fine go ahead you can still be flat earth all day long just stop saying the Bible justifies your cause Dwayne Greene says how can Christians on either side of the argument work together or do we need to distance ourselves from flatterers on the other hand I think if I have any flat earthers in my life I want to come near them I want to be around them I want to talk to them and I want to help them if possible but you have to isolate the conversation even now I did this video I salaita the talk on the on the specific passages of scripture in context that's the that's what I would try to do for what it's worth I would not try to talk to them about their experiments and talk to them about NASA and talk to him about conspiracies and airplane flights and beloved by blood I wouldn't get into any of that I would stick to Scripture and tell him you can still be a flatterer I'm not even gonna tell you it's not true I just want to tell you you're not getting it from the Bible that's the whole point I think that's just a smart way to go about it a you 7 5 2010 says where can I get a Bible thinker coffee mug like the one in the background like this one right here well you can go to actually one of my mods I'll put it in the link and they're just in the live chat right now I'll put a link in the description afterwards I haven't put them in recently but you can't order these they take a while to get to you be warned but you can order them from Brenda's aqil he has it he has his own website basically a guy who loves this ministry makes these mugs by him by himself like small batches and then he'll ship them out occasionally to people who want them so I'll put a link down below and you guys can get that if you'd like mmm Mike winger Regenesis one right at the beginning I have done that UK diamond I've done that many many times and I will do it many more times as well arlynn Aspen all says how can you figure Joe is a poetic book some of it seems quite literal like when Joe like when he tells joke to behold as they look at I do not support Flat Earth but there's some good creation text actually Jobe is such a poetical book you're gonna wonder this Arlen you need to know this job is such a poetical book that in the groups of books in the Old Testament it's grouped in the poetry books right Psalms proverbs job Song of Solomon Ecclesiastes it's literally the book is poetry the book is poetry we don't see it as much because we read it in English not in the original Hebrew you're gonna see it stronger in the original Hebrew but it's a literal pick up any commentary on Jobe anyone just pick a random one I guarantee you it's gonna say this is a poetic book it absolutely is that doesn't mean every phrase in the book is poetic but the majority of it is let's see mint mentally mentally all says in Genesis 1:16 it seems to imply the moon is not just a rock and that the stars and the Sun are not the same things thoughts let me look at Genesis 1:16 oh I should mention this this is kind of kind of related I didn't cover the start star passages people talk about the stars falling from the heavens back then back then they don't we think of stars and we're thinking of these like sun-like objects out in space or just bright spots in the sky they looked at stars as anything other than the Sun that was up in the sky if a meteor came down it was a star that fell we still do this right look I saw a shooting star nobody thinks that it's like this like you know millions of miles wide like you know Earth destroying object crashing into the atmosphere to destroy and kill everyone on the planet like nobody thinks that because we understand and we still have some leftovers of the idea that star just means like something in the sky so in the stars fall this is talking about like a meteor shower all right or or Angelica beings in some passages but a job 1:16 says and God made the two great lights the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night and the stars yeah I mean if nothing else it speaks of our our perception of them right we have our son is four for Earth right it's to rule the day and night on earth so the Sun is the the great light for the day and the moon is the great light for the night I don't really think it's giving us too much more than that beyond that I will say Genesis though we do have good reason to think that that Genesis was different than other creation accounts and others other cultures of the time because it didn't deify any of these created things the Sun the Stars the moon the earth itself all these things are just things God made they're not actually deities they're not made from the dead carcasses of deities like the islands of Japan and Japanese lore they're not they're not made through some battle right God just makes them and then they're just things that exist so it's it's actually more of a modern review of the universe that we get as opposed to the ancient view that the people around them had which is more evidence that the Bible will teach things that differ from the culture around it and even if they did believe in the Flat Earth that doesn't mean the Bible teaches that even if it uses the same language that they used because that's literally the language they used I mean these are the word they have alright I'm about done for tonight but I'll do a couple more real quick um hey Mike heaven is up and she'll is below what's up on the ball earth well up is from our perspective we're humans so if you're living in China down is down to you you're living in California like me down is down to me it's it's perspectival it's about your perspective this is what we mean when we say that the Sun goes up its perspective or phenomenological it's like what it looks like to you that would be the idea so yeah and she'll being down I don't know if that's if the she'll is literally down or if it gods using the picture of it being down because when people die they get buried in the ground and so we associate burying and going down into the ground with death and so he's using this to describe physical death that may simply be the case alright last question my rejection rain says why does Pastor Mike believe we are being hurt by accepting a Flat Earth biblical cosmology because I think it's not biblical so you're accepting something as biblical that's biblical which means you're accepting a false teaching a false teaching thinking it's biblical that is always hurtful that is always hurtful if you've a view of Jesus it's not biblical that's hurtful if you have a view of cosmology that's not biblical in this case I'm saying the Bible does not support it the Bible doesn't teach it you don't get it from the text of Scripture you're getting it from other places and that is a hurtful thing

Powered by: Preachitsuite