by Mike Winger
Find out what I said to her in a private message that got her to block me on Twitter. And see how this art perfectly represents the propaganda of the pro-choice movement. We can actually learn a TON from how this artist is abusing the words of Jesus to support abortion. See the art, understand what it means, and learn how it totally distorts the teachings of Jesus. This is that artist whose work I am critiquing. I want to make sure to give her full credit. If you want to check out her work this is her Twitter page (although I can no longer see what's on it) Some of the issues that will come up in today's live stream. Does Jesus saying "With you always" mean that He supports abortion? Why does this art ignore the issue of the baby? Which side of the abortion line would Jesus actually be on, based on HIS OWN words? Why don't pro-choice people want a calm, rational conversation? Here's a short video explaining what happens in a pill abortion. The video in this link does have drawn images but no actual photos. We really need to know what this is since people think it's not a big deal to take pills that cause abortions. Published paper on consensus of Biologists saying human life begins at conception If you love this teaching and want to support it please click here.

 alright here we are last week last week yeah I like this to jump right into it I saw a couple memes from a pro-choice artist her name's Tatyana Gil or at least that's her name on Twitter where I was able to find her and it showed Jesus the Lord Jesus supporting an abortion in fact there were multiple images that show Jesus supporting abortion actually helping somebody assist them in some sense with getting their abortion and I thought I'm gonna do a video response to this I'd like to talk about this issue I think it's worth discussing obviously it's worth discussing it's huge well before I went to make a video about the memes that I saw I thought let me let me reach out to the artist let me reach out to the tatianna and just get you know some information from her because why I want to first make sure I understand her point I don't want to put video content and however say wait a minute that wasn't the point of my art so that was one of the reasons well she blocked me how is her response to me reaching out I didn't get a response back I sent her a private message on Twitter she just blocked me like that no further contact and what we're gonna do today is we're gonna look at the propaganda of several pictures not just one but I found multiples that she has drawn to show Jesus supporting abortion we're gonna look at the propaganda like what's the message what is being taught to people with these images as they use Jesus to support abortion and I think on the topic of abortion people are just blinded by propaganda propaganda rules the day when it comes to especially the pro-choice crowd it's full of propaganda in fact I think they've just gone all in I think they've just given up trying to use you know good reasoning and thoughtful careful you know thought-out reasons just reasons at all instead it's just propaganda it's just push the agenda push the agenda so we're gonna talk about that in a rational way today we'll also answer questions about whether Jesus would support abortion or not and I'm gonna talk about what some what I said to her basically in my private message I'll share that with you at the end give you my private message to her why she blocked me and how I think it reveals something about pro-choice movement that they many of them would rather not have revealed because it looks really bad because they tout an idea called tolerance and and dialogue but they're actually very opposed to both of those things so we're gonna do that today welcome to the Tuesday live stream my name is michael winger I'm a pastor it's on California I do as most of you know I do every week on Tuesdays at 5:00 p.m. Pacific Standard Time I do something related to theology apologetics something related to explaining teaching defending the Christian worldview that sort of thing so let me just jump right in here is the first image take a look at this now I'm presenting this image to you for the purpose of critique I'm not trying to get anything out of her artwork or something like that this is for critique but I can't critique the image without showing it to you because it's all about what these images are what they say I have a link in the description for Tatiana Gill if you'd like to check out her content I encourage you be gracious to her be nice to her don't go and harass her that's not what we're about but if you want to look into her content there's a link to her Twitter profile which I can no longer view but you probably can't because I don't think you've liked you so so here's what here's what this scene has I'll describe it for those who might be listening on podcast and aren't watching on YouTube well it has a woman she's on her way into an abortion clinic she's walking down a path on either side of the path there are protesters for all together two on each side and they're holding up signs and the signs kind of you know in their aggressive faces towards her one's pointing at her but the sign say murderer killer your body my choice and then if the fourth sign is forced birth for the poor forced birth for the poor so clearly the message is you know here's what the pro-choicers are they're jerks and here's the sort of innocent victim girl who's walking on her way to get an abortion well the thing you might not expect is Jesus is in this picture too and there he is he is standing kind of like walking like like almost like Moses going through the Red Sea he's got one hand out on each side like like shutting down the the protesters and he's putting his hands out there kind of shut them down he smile on smiling on his face on his on his vest he has two signs one says clinic escort and the and says as sculptor Clinic which I'm assuming is clinic escort in Spanish and then above his head has a quote from the real Jesus it says with you always with you always so Jesus is smiling he's supporting what she's doing he's blocking her from the oppression of those around her that's the unexpected part let me show you image number two because image number two is more bold and then we're gonna proceed to discuss these images critique them engine image number two is during an abortion procedure the woman is lying on the table she's in the process of having an abortion the doctors not delivering her baby he's killing it and Jesus is there with her holding her hand to support her through this he says above his head with you always this and in case you're thinking wait a minute Mike this can't mean what you think it means she actually explained this image on her Twitter profile tatiana gill says with you always the images Jesus holds a woman's hand and loving support as she lays on a medical bed getting a procedural abortion from a doctor and then she's complaining that she's having a hard time putting this up on Facebook for some reason so this is her interpretation of her own artwork yes this is an abortion procedure Jesus is supporting he's in loving support holding her hand that's the idea alright let's talk a little bit about those two images I think the first thing we see is obviously we're getting we're getting one sided thing art does tend to produce sort of biased content and that's the nature of art of course and the question is is it good biases or bad biases I guess and what we see here though is the number one issue with both of these pieces of art look at them again right there's something missing on both of these artwork pieces there's a person missing there's an important person that's not included in either of these images it's the baby right in the in the second image the abortion is happening but you wouldn't know because there's no baby in this picture there's no there's nothing artistically done to demonstrate there's a child involved or a living human being in the first picture there's nothing to demonstrate there's a living human being involved at all this is exactly what people do on issue of abortion the pro-choice movement is surrounded by this sort of like elephant in the room this thing they don't talk about right the baby the innocent human being the living human that's inside of the mother right now that they never discuss because in order for them to get away with promoting the kind of content they're promoting it really helps to not talk about the actual victim of an abortion so on both of these images there's no baby there's no baby so this is why the pro-choice movement can get away with phrases like bodily autonomy you know the pro-choice it's really just about a woman's right to choose a woman's right to do this to do what she wants with her own body and I would agree in fact most people would agree if that was the issue see what what the pro-lifers are saying is not that a woman doesn't have a right to choose what to do with her body what they're saying is guys it's not about her body there's another body involved and that body belongs to a tiny little living human being there are other bodies involved so I approve a firefighter has a right to do with you what he wants with his own body but when he's carrying somebody out of a fire he doesn't at that moment have the right to drop them onto the ground into the fire and say well I don't want to be burdened with them anymore I have lots of good reasons I'm just gonna drop them down into the fire no firefighters stop you have a responsibility to take care of this person to save them from what's going on so some would say a woman has a right to do what you went to their own body and we would agree yes of course she does in general that's a good general rule of thumb but she doesn't have the right to take a fork with her body and stab it with her body into someone else's head because now you're involving someone else's body I thought that would seem obvious but this is the kind of stuff that we can't talk about because the pro-choice movement won't admit frequently that there is even another body involved right it's not just her body so this is what I want to say is about the abortion issues the abortion issue is about the one thing that is ignored by the pro-choice individuals frequently not every individual for the most part yeah as you dialog of people they ignore the one thing the one thing is what are we killing what is this thing that's being killed inside of the woman what it what is being killed because if this thing that's being killed is like really a human it's not really alive it's not really even being killed it's just removing some sort of you know mass no big deal go for it why is this an issue but if it's a living human being all of a sudden a host of moral issues come up and we can't just willy-nilly kill living human beings so then we get into the dialogue about what is what is going on you know in an abortion and the pro-choice movement will often try to say things like it's just a clump of cells this isn't really a baby Mike it's a clump of cells it's a clump of cells you guys remember hearing that phrase clump of cells I mean technically you're a clump of cells right I mean you're a gathering of cells but this while it's a slogan while it's a it's a propagandistic slogan it doesn't actually say anything about because literally every living thing in the world is a clump of cells every one of them a trees are clumps of cells I'm a clump of cells I'm just a bigger clump of cells than an infant inside the womb or a an embryo or a fetus I'm a larger clump of cells so are we saying that only clumps of cells of certain size have value or deserve protections no that that doesn't really make sense so what really is going on what's inside the living being now I don't want to do a whole long thing on that I just want to get right to the point because I think most of us know the answer to this question if we're honest with ourselves so most Americans there was a poll done most Americans say that biologists are the ones who should be able to tell us when human life begins that they're qualified right there they're studying the actual things that go on when sperm and egg meat when fetal development goes through its various stages and they should be qualified to tell us what human life when human life begins well there was a study done by Stephen Andrew Jacobs who is from the University of Chicago division of Social Sciences department of comparative human development he did a study I have a link to the study in the video description you're welcome to check it out if you're on a computer you can even open it in a new tab and and you could you know multitask and listen to me while you're examining that paper what they did was they it surveyed over 5,000 biologists actually 5502 biologists asking them when does human life begin right when is when is this thing alive and and human alive human and they surveyed over 5,000 biologists 5502 from 1058 academic institutions it's important that when you when you survey a large group you survey from Allah not just a large number of people but from a lot of different institutions you want to do that so you're not just getting one way of thinking about an issue well it turns out there was consensus amongst biologists consensus which is a big deal that that human life begins at conception that's when sperm and egg meet boom human life has begun ninety-five a quote now from the study this is in the paper 95% of all biologists affirmed that the biological view that a human's life begins at fertilization a human's life begins at fertilization so that this includes pro-choice biologists not just like pro-life ones that weren't just Christian colleges or something like that but pro-choice biologists were in there as well atheist biologists were in there as well and they agreed overall consensus ninety-five percent human life begins at conception at conception now on such a hot issue where people are so especially pro-choice people would be so prone to want to push human life to some later stage of development right it's crazy that there's a 95 percent consensus on this topic what it means is that the biology is not complicated or confusing it's clear it's alive it's human it's in its it's separate from the mother though it's dependent it's still separate it's distinct that not much is clear that much is clear I'll give you a quote now from Bernard Nathanson Bernard Nathanson he he's not he's not a Christian pastor okay this guy he co-founded one of the most influential abortion advocacy groups in the world Nair all he co-founded them he said the following there is simply no doubt that even the early embryo is a human being all its genetic coding and all its features are indisputably human as to being there's no doubt that it exists is alive is self-directed and is not the same being as the mother and is therefore a unified whole so when we when we approach the issue of abortion we should just be asking honestly the question isn't isn't like who's the bad guy here's image one who were the meanies and who's the victim image 2 Oh who's the one going through hard times who needs support no these ignore the issue where's the baby in these pictures where's the living human being that is being killed in these pictures when it comes to abortion the real the only question the only question is when is it okay to kill a living human being in the womb of her mother that's the question that's the question but but the pro-choice side of things has found this question really hard to answer and when they do answer it honestly when they're like you can kill a living human being in the mother whenever you feel like it when they say things like this people freak out and then it's like the the elephant in the room is exposed and they realize you're you're doing a horrible immoral thing and so instead of admit it a lot of them don't want to die on that sword of admitting admitting the homicide is taking place so instead of admitting it what they want to do is just talk around it and ignore the elephant in the room so we get phrases like this right on websites that tell you what abortion is they say abortion is to remove the pregnancy from the uterus remove the pregnancy from the uterus I mean can you tell that they're trying not to talk about the issue at hand or they'll say something like evacuate the uterus evacuate the uterus is that like what would happen in court if if someone broke into your house and they and they took one of your family members and they they dragged them out of your house strangle them and drag them out of your house and threw them out to die of exposure in the in the wilderness and then they stand in court and they said well I didn't commit murder i evacuated them from your house that's all I really did I just evacuated them from your hell this is obviously trying to talk around the issue of abortion not being willing to admit or confront the real things that are going on here the moral atrocity that's happening here let me give you one more example of an image that um that this artist put up tatyana dill her other with you always images a theme with you always jesus's with you always she describes this image as a trans man who is taking chemicals to induce a medical abortion a medical abortion now a lot of people think medical abortion because they happen at the earlier stages of pregnancy there's really not a big deal but they don't understand what actually happens in a medical abortion I would like if you're a pro-choice for you to have the courage and the integrity to find out what you're what you're supporting and click the link in the description that is about a three minute video describing what happens in a medical abortion it's an it's a former abortionist doctor who committed many abortions I think you said 1,200 who actually describes what happens during a medical abortion this is from the live action website or group and it's a great video I recommend you guys check it out this is this picture is deceptive right there's no baby in this picture there should be there really should be or we get statements like this we want to keep abortion safe and legal these are the slogans this is the propaganda of the pro-choice movement keep abortion safe and legal safe and legal safe and legal if abortion kills a living human which it most certainly does it's not safe every abortion results in the death of a living human being so it's not safe so why would you keep it legal think about it think about I mean our our very inalienable rights according to the United States Declaration of Independence Constitution like the most foundational rights we have is the right to life among them life when we have abortions we robbed a living human being of their right to life every abortion does this Wow but we get other ways that people try to try to work away from the what's happening in an abortion what it means in an abortion and they'll say things like well it's just a zygote or a fetus or an embryo and they and they just like I mean literally they just want to use weird names to dehumanize this person this living human being inside of the mother this one who's weird names I had a discussion like this when I went to college when I went my my my little amount of college and we went to a class logical thinking where the first thing we learned in class it was interesting they said language is a system of shared conventions I remember that for some reason language is a system of shared conventions you know what we when we use language those terms would have no meaning except that we agree on their meaning right another way to put this is like a rose by any other name would still smell as sweet meaning I can call that rose anything I want I can call it poop if I want to call it poop it doesn't change the fact that it's a rose this is what's happening with the with the abortion discussion when we decide we're not gonna call this a baby we're gonna we're going to fight over terms we're gonna call this a fetus an embryo as zygote a blastocyst we're gonna use these weird terms people aren't used to and this is to dehumanize the the the living human being inside the mother which that most certainly is a living human being inside a real mother and so in my college class my professor was very liberal and I live in California right so like there aren't too many like me around here it's um I I was discussing this in the class he was talking about abortion and I was like yeah Orson's wrong I mean that's wrong you should we shouldn't have that and we went back and forth and back and forth and he was he was losing the battle I'm in this discussion I'm by cuts grace cuz I was like a 19 year old dummy but he but by God's grace he was like it was being shown that his opinion was wrong so he started shutting me down he wouldn't let me talk and it was actually pretty exciting for me I think it was a good discussion I was very respectful the whole time and I recommend if you're debating with professors which I don't wholly recommend in the first place but that should be very respectful the whole time and careful with your words but at one point the professor got really upset and I think he felt cornered so he left the room and I'm not kidding he was gone for like ten minutes and he was looking for a dictionary that would support his view that the the child in the womb is not a child not a baby not properly called a baby or a child so he finally found a dictionary that supported his view and he flipped open and he read a section that showed that it was a zygote that this is a zygote I think for the first certain number of weeks we have a zygote technically we are a zygote I should say technically and so I just raised my hand I said dr. Gruber Gruber was a groove or a Gruber I don't remember I said dr. Gruber you said that language was a system of shared conventions which really just means that your trying to say that if you give this living human being a new name now it's okay to kill it and that was the end of that discussion I was not allowed to speak for the rest of the class and that's what's happening here we used aegyo fetus embryo literally you guys you were a zygote you were an embryo you were a fetus I have a bumper sticker maybe I'll talk about this sometime on a video that says former embryo on board that would be me I'm the former embryo on board it gets me a lot of flack out here in California both positive and negative it definitely gets some attention I've had an note on my window because of it before I've been I've been followed by a woman who wanted to chew me out because of it before and I think it's all kind of funny but but yeah we're I'm former embryo so are you so yeah these are literally as I go to fetus an embryo this is just what humans are at early stages you were also a child you were also pre-adolescent you were also juvenile you were also an adult you are a old adult or elderly or an old person or an ancient Yoda whatever it is these are all just different stages of human development they're all human and they're all therefore having human value or the value of human life you know you can think about this simply in your life if you're not with me on this but you're still listening I appreciate that you are imagining if a friend who has a miscarriage and your friends really down they're really bummed they're really sad they had a miscarriage I think we all know somebody who has and so you turn them you say don't worry don't worry it was just a zygote don't worry it was just a fetus don't worry it was just a clump of cells it wasn't even like a thing don't worry don't worry at all do you do that to your friend or is that like in and not only an insensitive slap in the face is it also like a delusional basically a way of getting them to not think about the reality of what just happened this horrible hard thing where they had a miscarriage no you don't say I'm good good thing that wasn't a baby right no you say I'm so sorry you lost your baby when they say I lost my baby you're like it wasn't a baby no you know what it was you know what it was and with abortion somehow somewhere most of us know exactly what's going on just not admitting it we're just not admitting it so there's ways of dehumanizing dehumanize the human inside the womb so that we can kill this human without thinking that it is a human that's what's happening here and this relates oh my gosh this relates to tons of human rights atrocities that have happened throughout the years let me talk a little bit about Adolphe Hitler now not I'm not saying that you're Hitler if you support abortion I'm saying there's a type of propaganda that Hitler would use that is the kind of propaganda one uses when one wants to dehumanize people so that you can more easily justify killing them and that type of propaganda is also in action in the pro-choice movement so Hitler's propaganda was promoted by this guy here Joseph Goebbels Joseph Goebbels would refer to the Jews as the unter mention who intervention or sub humans he called him subhumans he wanted to okay maybe they're human Dominic I'm gonna call them like a lesser human a lower human somewhere down the rung on the important human importance they don't have equal value as all humans they have less value they would refer to the Jews and their public media and in their discussions as rats which would be a negative thing instead of a human there'd be calling we'd be calling them rats or a parasite on the Jewish people in fact I've heard people call infants in the womb in the womb parasites right or clumps of cells I've heard these terms used this is just the same kind of propaganda let's talk about eugenics eugenics this is a photo from a New York in about 1915 circa 1915 and here they are trying to promote eugenics the idea that they would be able to what's the term make it so they can't have babies can't rid of the term what is the term anyway I'll remember it just blanks blanks from my mind right now but what they would do is they would say hey look you know uh let's dehumanize the people that we want to sterilize that's the term that we went to sterilize and so they hold up these signs to represent those people he says I cannot read this sign by what right have I children or another man holding up with the prisons and asylums be filled if my kind had no children my kind like there's some lower breed of humans this guy says I must drink alcohol to sustain life shall I transfer the craving to others so they can be dehumanized through this and then finally I'm a burden to myself in the state should I should I be allowed to propagate they made a rhyme out of it in that case and so we have these these kinds of things let's call them imbeciles criminals morons they're humans but their lesser humans because my my human rights I don't want them to have the same human rights as me I'm gonna give them a lesser title so they're fetuses so they're you know zygote or blastocysts briefly I'm gonna use those terms when it came to slavery propaganda this is the kind of thing that they were dealing with in the early u.s. when we were fighting the battle against slavery Abe Lincoln would deal with people who were saying things like that like well they're they're you know but they're imbeciles right like the but the black people aren't intelligent enough not true but here's the point it doesn't matter if it is true it's not like people who aren't intelligent deserve to be enslaved it's not like they have less human rights because they don't have a high enough intelligence you don't gain more rights when you get smarter this is just an inherently bankrupt view of human rights so Abe Lincoln said the following and I would think that that this quote from Abe Lincoln applies so much to our abortion issue today listen to this and think of the parallels he says you say a is white and B is black it is color then the lighter having the right to enslave the darker take care by this rule you are to be slave to the first man you meet with a fairer skin than your own you do not mean color exactly you mean the whites are intellectually the superiors of the black and therefore have the right to enslave them take care again by this rule you are to be slave to the first man you meet with an intellect superior to your own but say you it is a question of interest and if you can make it your interest you have the right to enslave another like say with side note with like say hey I need them to run my farm okay I have I have my own personal interests and he says very well and if he can make it his interest he has the right to enslave you you just can't you can't dehumanize people by grading them on things like awareness of their environment level of dependency that how the size they are oh and well when they get a little bigger then they'll have human value well goodness gracious I'd hate to be um I'd hate to be someone who was three foot seven permanently I'm only I'm only like two-thirds human what am I am I do I even have human rights can people hurt me and I don't have the recourse because I'm not big enough or only the intelligent you know well you know infants aren't self-aware well people in comas aren't self-aware but you can't kill them in fact almost every reason that you can use to support abortion of a baby in the womb you can use to support abortion of a baby five minutes after it's been born to kill that baby five minutes after it's been born think of a different what's the difference they're just as dependent on mom right I mean if she if she doesn't take care of them and feed them can she just leave them out to die now anyway the whole discussion just breaks down morally so one thing that Joseph Goebbels there's that guy again right there he was the propaganda Minister for the Nazis during that dark time and one of the things that he said was if you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it people who eventually come to believe it well let me show you now with this strategy in mind there's a propaganda strategy here my doorbell ring go away I'm live-streaming on YouTube with this propaganda view in mind that you just say it loud enough and over and over again people may believe it well this is the fourth image that I want to show you from Tatiana Gill recently posted because Valentine's Day just passed she has a bunch of candy hearts and written on them are little messages for the pro-choice movement abortion is freedom one heart says abortion is normal another heart says abortion is equity another heart says one says shout your abortion abortion is good abortion you do you abortion is family values abortion is justice I love people who have abortions abortion is healthcare abortion is healthy abortion is nonpartisan abortion is legal these are all the the hearts and the comments that have there and this is um honestly what we've seen the past few years with the abortion movement is shout your abortion that whole idea is um just you know what just scream it just screaming as loud as you can say it as often as you can say it as strong as you can vilify the opposition all this ignores the baby all of this ignores the baby pro-choice people ignore the baby the innocent human being and you cannot rationally argue that this is anything other than a living human being inside of the mother now I'm gonna share with you guys something I don't know I'm gonna prepare you for but let me ask let me say this let's say that you voted for abortion you're a supporter of abortion or you're pro-life but you're really like background like you don't feel like there's anything you need to do to help move the movement the movement go forward maybe you're even pro-life privately but you feel like publicly you're pro-choice because you feel like you have a justification for it here's what I want to suggest I want to suggest that you need to watch this little clip I'm about to share with you it's gonna have disturbing images in it I want to tell you right now I want to prepare you for it if you don't want to watch it you can skip ahead it's about a minute four minutes seven seconds long I think the reason why you should watch this video is because you're supporting the behaviors in this video shouldn't you at least be aware of what you're supporting because you may not even realize what's going on you might not have really thought about this thing you might be actually pushing forward the agenda of abortion through your voting or through your public support or maybe you're just allowing it to take place more because of silence because of unwillingness to stand on the issue and so you are influencing our culture in some fashion and you're helping these things happen so I say you can turn away you can click away you can skip ahead you can get off this video if you want those that's fine here's the woman a clip I think you ought to do this I think you need to see this at least once in your life you need to see what this abortion stuff looks like there will be no audio here it's just going to be video I'm gonna go silent you're gonna hear some music when the music ends the video is over here we go [Music] what I want to say is that that video that you just saw that's the reality of abortion this is the thing that everyone's been ignoring this whole time that video shows the baby shows that even if you don't like the term baby fine it shows the living human being you can't really argue with that term it shows the living human being that's being killed in the process of abortion and you need to take a look at this a sober look because this is what you're supporting this is what you're encouraging this is what you're just staying silent on is this living human being to the tune of 800,000 this year this last year it's usually 2019 right I mean that would be a conservative estimate based on the numbers I've heard recently 800,000 that's what we're supporting so this is the thing that's ignored now if that's you and your heart is broken and your heart is torn apart because you realize that you've supported or even committed these these acts these atrocities of abortion can I tell you about the grace of God in Jesus Christ Jesus died for your sin he suffered and died for your sin he paid him he knew the depth of your sin maybe you're suddenly aware of how wicked it was and you don't even know how to come to terms with what you've done can I say this Jesus already knew how wicked it was he already came to terms with it and he came to terms of it on the cross when he died for your sin so that you could be washed and clean and forgiven but in no way does the cross mean while it does mean grace and forgiveness it doesn't mean to minimize the sin or to ignore the baby no we need we need to look at our sin and repent which means confessing it confronting it being honest about it that's what we've got to do that's what we need to do so what what abortion pro-choice advocates tend to avoid is mentioning the baby it's the elephant in the room the thing they don't want to discuss they want to talk around they want to change and cloud the subject but what they do focus on is very revealing as well what they do focus on what they do focus on is the woman is the woman and you could see this in the images that are played you guys earlier showed you earlier right notice there's no baby in the image but there is a woman and the woman is concerned right she's going through hard times and everybody else is mean to her they're jerks they're meanies but look at her she's just going through a hard time in the second image you see this woman she's you guys have been in surgery before it is an unpleasant exposed difficult situation it's hard and she's go through a hard time and I I think she is I think women committing abortion are going through a hard time they are going through all kinds of hard stuff difficult stuff heart-wrenching stuff but none of it's as bad as what they're putting that baby through right the victim here the one being ignored is the baby but in order to you know push their agenda forward they need a victim they need a victim they need they need a bad guys and good guys right and so the woman going through our time becomes the focus this is a propagandistic tactic this is a propagandistic tactic where you create a victim to distract you from a human rights issue for pro-choicers it's the pregnant woman right she's oppressed she's in danger pro-lifers are mean to her they don't care about her they're hateful horrible bigots she's a victim they're the villains let's ignore the baby but this this reveals like a a moral aspect to the pro-choice pro-life movement that people don't often acknowledge which is to say this it's not like pro lifers are saying we need moral values and pro-choicers are like we don't need moral values we hate moral values it's very different than that what's actually happening is that the pro-life movement feels like they have moral values in the pro-choice movement feels like they have just as many if not more morals than the other side does because they're protecting this woman they're blind to the baby so they only see us vilifying women us the pro-life movement we tend to be like look there's a baby here and we and we do we try to support the woman and the baby we do both there's pro-life movement does so much to help women but yet that's irrelevant to the issue of the baby right there's a living human being they don't see it so their moral compasses upside down it's it's inverted like when you invert an image black and white you don't just you don't just get rid of morality you invert it you turn it around so it's completely backwards in this case helping a woman kill her living offspring is a good is a moral good is a moral positive thing it should happen this is this is just morals upside down Isaiah 5:20 talks about this God speaks about this he says woe to those who call evil good and good evil they switch good for evil who put darkness for light and light for darkness who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter for Hitler he did this he propped up a victim so he can make the Jewish people look bad his victim was the German people right the the German people being held down held back harmed abused by the Jewish people so then it turned them into the bad guys in when eugenics it was the productive members of society they were they were held up and then the imbeciles and the unproductive and the addicted were like you're victimizing the productive members of society so here we have a victim so now we can come against you so in other words they genuinely thought they're fighting for what's right and this is actually Douglass grew theus he was a scholar who looked into atrocities throughout the time throughout history a lot of atrocities and he was he looked into these over and over again and he found the same thing consistently and that is wherever you go in history where terrible atrocities are happening in a society the society thinks it's good think about that this really hit my heart when I heard this wait the you know when atrocities happen in your culture your culture doesn't see it they don't know it they like it they think it's positive this if this doesn't describe abortion I don't know what it describes so in order to get you to like abortion to think abortion is good we must have a victim the victim is the woman and so they're fighting really hard to make women into victims on the topic of abortion but if anybody is actually a victim it's the innocent living human being inside the womb of the of the mother no man that this stuff is it's heavy it's heavy but it shows you why the conversation can't happen because pro-choice they think they're defending the woman pro-life think they're defending the child and and then and they're talking past each other they're talking past each other we obviously want to care for both of them of course pro-lifers do careful there's nothing about pro-life that says we don't care for the for the women now let me talk to you guys a little bit about abusing Jesus because that's what we see happening in this in this image I think I'm gonna do a whole video one of these days on all the biblical passages that relate to abortion there's just too many of them to cram into this one video and the debate is too big on this topic but there are plenty of people who want to say the Bible and particularly Jesus supports abortion like the woman in this in this picture here and in these pictures here now the with you always what's the agenda behind this with you always content it's basically to say hey when Jesus said with you always that applies to the abortion procedure that applies to him saying I'm gonna support you when you're having an abortion the problem I have with this is that that's not what Jesus meant when he said I'm with you always he didn't mean I will affirm whatever you do in the future that's obviously not what he meant right when you writes the letters to the churches and in Revelation and they're in sin and he's like telling you don't do that don't do that don't do that he's he's rebuking them he's refuting them he's telling him a wrong they are even says he'll remove their lampstand you know this is a pretty harsh good condemnation of their behavior so with you always doesn't mean approval of your behavior we actually we could read it in Matthew 28 let me read to you when Jesus said this Matthew 28 verses 18 through 20 it says Jesus came and said to them all authority in heaven and earth has been given to me go therefore and make disciples of all nations baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit teaching them to observe all that I've commanded you and behold I am with you always to the end of the age so it's Jesus's presence in the believer and in the church as we go out we do our evangelism and discipleship job it is not approval it is not approval because if you take Jesus's phrase with you always to mean he approves or he's gonna support you and your abortion then you have to take it as approving what when people are sex trafficking I mean is can you draw a picture of a guy whose sex trafficking some young girl and then put Jesus holding his hand and says with you always what about a rapist is Jesus with him always armed robbers how about drivers who leave their brights on all the time all right package thieves who steal your stuff whose still is stuff from your doorstep our is Jesus with them always is that what's going on no I don't think so I could do a whole video on on just the biblical stuff and I think I might in the future all the biblical passages that relate to the topic of abortion I think it'd be fruitful to do it an actual examination of them not just like throwing them all out but what would Jesus actually say about abortion I'll just offer three points real quick Jesus one he affirmed the Old Testament he affirmed the Old Testament Jesus doesn't stand as an oddball in the Bible disagreeing with everything else that Christianity teaches right he affirms the description there's you can't use Jesus to dis confirm or disprove some other passage in the Bible because he's the same one who inspired the old he affirms the old testament in several places he affirms that it was inspired by God he also knows that we're humans made in God's image he refers to us this way in his own words but also in affirming the old testament he shows that we're made in God's image right and the scripture tells us you shall not murder or take the innocent human life you shall not take innocent human life that's murder is all right because we were made in God's image so it's in it's a innate quality of mankind not due to our intelligence not due to our capability not due to our dependence not due to our size not due to the environment we're in it's just innate in our human nature we have human value God says don't kill them don't do that it's wrong murder is wrong Jesus would affirm that as well because what the Bible says about human value is true at all humans and embryos are humans the third thing I'll mention is the cross when Jesus went to the cross and died this kind of gave commentary for how he feels about the hopeless the dregs the imbeciles the drug addicts the poor the diseased those who have a laundry list of bad things in their life behind them and who have a laundry list of bad experiences coming up in their life in front of them and many times these are the things that are used to promote abortion well what if the baby the babies can have a hard time they're gonna have a really bad life growing up we should probably kill them I mean that this is this is the actual reasoning of pro-choice people sometimes but Jesus is cross Jesus dying on the cross for those very people proves that he would rather die than kill them I think that matters whatever way you want to devalue the innocent human inside the mother um Jesus seems to undo that on the cross now if you're not convinced and you say and I'm about to go to your guys questions so we're about to hit your guys questions and the live chat hopefully AJ can send me those over in a minute and I will hold it to them so sorry for the glitch we had earlier let's say you're not convinced you're like Mike I hear you you know I think you're trying to be reasonable and I think you make a lot of good points but but I don't think so I'm not convinced because I think maybe maybe it's okay to up to a certain age and gestation there's a certain age where it really is okay maybe like I know it's wrong third trimester I'm sure that but but maybe first trimester it's okay because you know maybe the baby doesn't have the same brain activity that an infant does or I do well maybe is a very precarious thing to say I'll give you the reason why let's suppose that there's a building nearby and they're about to they're about to blow it up they're having like a scheduled demolition of this building and they're about to hit the pit the the plunger and blow the thing up and you overhear them saying okay is the building clear cuz we're gonna blow it up and some guy comes out of the building and he goes maybe he says maybe it's clear I'm not sure but maybe there's a good chance that it's clear are they okay for blowing up the building what are the rules the rules are all right stop everything go and sweep every corner go and look in every possible hiding place we need this building to be absolutely clear before we can push this thing because if we even might kill a person we can't take this step that's the same thing for abortion if you think maybe it's okay early on then I think you are still bound morally to not encourage or support abortion in fact you should be fighting against it because what you're really saying is maybe there's a whole bunch of murder going on there maybe I better stop it then now if you think okay I don't even agree with that Mike I think before it you know if abortions happens before the the second trimester I think it's okay well then I'm gonna have I have a request for you I know this will sound we were coming from a pro-choice person pro-life person to someone like you pro-choice I want to say then fight for what you believe in because what you're doing right now is you're probably voting for full term abortions you're probably putting people in office who go for full term abortions and who fight every piece of legislation that would that would limit the things that you think are murder right because you say the first trimester you thinks okay but everything you do supports the second and third trimester abortions you are a hypocrite you should be fighting at least until we get down to the first trimester you should be fighting and then you can turn in fight against us but until then hold our hands and let's fight together to save some lives if you say well I think in the case of rape then abortions okay but only rape well then why don't you fight for legislation that says that only if there's at least a claim of rape I mean at least that much because you think that the other abortions are immoral but you're still supporting them with your votes you're causing things to happen that you think are immoral with your votes if you say well incest if it's incest then I said well then fight then fight to stop abortions that don't involve rape or incest or the first trimester or whatever just at least have the courage of your convictions and get up and fight get up and fight and then I do want you to rethink your convictions and I want you to realize that just because my dad committed a rape doesn't mean I ought to be killed this is not morally acceptable or just because I was the product of incest doesn't incest doesn't mean that I should be killed just because I'm really really young doesn't mean I can be killed no but right now you're doing nothing you're doing nothing or worse you're voting for people who are pushing forward all kinds of continued like for it right let me see last February a year ago 44 Senate Democrats 44 Senate Senate Democrats blocked a bill that would stop a post abortion procedures let me put this way let's here's the scenario right a woman goes to have an abortion but in the process the baby's delivered comes out of the woman she is no longer attached to the womb has some chance of living on its own apart from the mother the abortion failed they just wanted to pass a law that was like hey you can't strangle that baby now you can't throw that baby into a bucket now you can't stab that baby in the head now now you have to treat it like any other separate human being from the mother and try to keep it alive so they're not even passing a bill to keep abortion from happening they're just saying if born alive act is the idea and 44 out of I think 45 Senate Democrats voted against this bill why because they say things like rape and incest and life of the mother but they don't mean any of those things what they really mean is abortion on demand without apology with no no no regulations okay I'm gonna show you guys why she blocked him and then we're gonna go to your guys questions so this is this is a tatianna Gil this is a lady who a person who I have been sharing her artwork with you guys today she says I draw comics and illustrations about my life inclusivity mental health body-positive addiction recovery and Seattle and this was the message I sent her I'm gonna read it to you because it print was kind of small message I sent was hi tatianna I'm a youtuber who's considering doing a video featuring your recent with you always art I will make sure to give you credit and a link your Twitter profile for anyone who wants to see your work I do disagree with the message of the art but I want to try to do so with humility and to keep from misunderstanding or misrepresenting your actual message I'm wondering if you could give me some explanations of what the message of those two images is I'm also wondering if you are a Christian or if you're just making a point with Jesus as a symbol of something again I'm not writing to argue with you at all but to better understand your perspective before making a thoughtful response to what I see as a misuse of scripture in support of abortion I appreciate your time maybe a couple specific questions would be easier to respond to number one what do you think with you always was meant to convey when Jesus said it number two do you think your understanding of with you always would also mean that Jesus is supportive of sex traffickers number three do you think Jesus is real is really in support of women getting abortions or is this just an artistic way of making some other point thank you so much for your time within 15 minutes you are blocked his house hit you are blocked why is this why I mean I was gracious I was thoughtful I was trying to understand her point I would know but I just give her a chance to explain herself I even gave her the thing I would say in the video this would support sex traffickers with with you always to help her explain refute me please know why because ultimately to up silencing the opposition shouting over the top of pro pro-life people keeping them from being able to stand on the sidewalk or hold up a sign or discuss the issue whenever wherever and whenever they want it's about silencing the opposition I what from what I see pro lifers are the ones trying to have debates I got I got a buddy mark Spence who's been trying to get into abortion debate and he has a really hard time finding these pro-choice advocates who are actually willing to share his stage with someone who's pro-life and have an honest discussion a fair talk about it because they want to silence the position they want to just ignore them because well there's an elephant in the room and once we point that out all of a sudden it's obvious how immoral it is all right I'm gonna go to your guys questions I hope that this has been fruitful for you I hope that you find some benefit here and and we're gonna find out how you guys respond all right let me see how this works okay this first question is from Trekkie Beth who says in a recent video you talked about the witness of the holy spirit what exactly is it like you described it as God himself telling me that he's real I don't know if I've experienced that okay so we don't have in Scripture this like sort of limiting factor where the Bible tells us the witness of the Holy Spirit feels this way or you you know this is what it's like so it could be that God could speak to us in various ways I'm that's entirely possible but the content of like what is the what are the truths that God is ministering to me by his Spirit are truths like I am a child of God in Romans 8 we this that his spirit cries out with our spirit that we are children of God so we're getting sort of like in some sort of internal witness and my witness doesn't mean emotion witness means like when someone witnesses to you they're like a witness and honest and they're telling you the truth of something they're saying hey that's true so there's something where God Himself is telling us in some fashion could be a variety of ways that we are a child of God this could be something you get as you're reading the Word of God it could be something you have it had it happen in prayer it could be like a constant ongoing experience it could be quenched it could be temporarily quenched or harmed in some fashion my awareness of it or my own faith and trust in what God has revealed to me but as you know to do with sort of propositional truth I'm a child of God and Jesus is Lord those kinds of those kinds of ideas now if you think you haven't experienced that I I know people who I think are genuine Christians who honestly reflect and they go I don't know that I've experienced this at least I can't identify it and I think that I'm just bear with them and say okay well I respect that but you you do trust that you're a child of God yeah do you trust the Holy Spirit the the work of the Holy Spirit in life of Christ yeah the death and resurrection of Jesus yes then perhaps they're experiencing it but they're experiencing difficulty and understanding it flora has a question some Christians who are against abortion are Pro IVF saying life begins only in the womb egg in Psalm 139 and thus it's okay for embryos to be destroyed how would I respond biblically thanks okay well I don't know I've never heard someone say that but as I understand it flora the question is well how do I respond to someone who says hey if if the sperm and egg are joined outside the womb somewhere else then it's not life because it didn't happen in the womb that's like an argument of location it's like saying that someone is only alive when they're in the womb which is the opposite of what a lot of pro-choice people want to say they want to say that the baby doesn't count until it's out of the womb so they use the location argument in the opposite direction they say you have to be out of the womb before you're considered alive that's weird wouldn't it be true then that after a woman delivers a baby if the baby is out of the womb now it's less alive it just doesn't make any sense to me I don't know that much about in vitro fertilization so I don't want to comment too much on it but I just wanna respond to that one line of argument Jeremy Massey says who is ekor I 13 talking about let's see i don't think i'm gonna be ready to answer that question off the top of my head let me just look and see yeah um I was I was reading Zechariah not too long ago and there are okay I'm gonna just pass on that one for now Jeremy because sometimes off the top of my head I'm like yeah I'm not loading that data in my mind right now very well and I don't want to speak wrongly on it so I'm I apologize I'm gonna pass on that one Lauren Woodyard says my family only votes based on what candidate is pro-life I understand the importance of the issue but is it responsible for that to be the only issue your ministry is an incredible blessing things thank you Lauren um I don't think it has to be the only issue but to me it's it is the most important issue on the ballot to me and so it's a deal-breaker put it that way it's a deal-breaker right if a candidate is not pro-life I won't vote for them personally yeah because it seems like a deal-breaker to me if they if they are an amongst pro-life candidates I want to pick the best option but I'll give you an extreme example let's say that I was gonna vote for someone who was pro-life and I thought they were really pro-life like they're actually gonna push pro-life policy but I really was convinced they were gonna bankrupt our country because of their terrible economic policies I would still vote for them because in this is my personal answer just me as an individual person I would still vote for them and the reason I would is because I think that the moral responsibility on the issue of abortion is way up here and that the cost of financial pain is totally worth saving those babies lives so yeah now this doesn't mean it's the only issue you have to care about but it does seem like a deal breaker issue to me Linda Elmore says what should I do if I have family who confess to be Christian but their gospel is distorted if they're unwilling to have a conversation about it how much separation is necessary well I think that it's important and healthy for us to recognize there's that difference between family and fellowship in church so you know we read in first Corinthians about separating ourselves from those who are living in like really Grievous constant sin and they're unwilling to repent re humble about it or anything like that and so there's an idea of separation that's meant to be a temporary separation for them to grow and be restored in fellowship we also read about those who preach false Gospels and how we're to like not even welcome them into our homes and here here it's referring to I should be careful when I say this it's not referring to Jehovah's Witnesses who knock on your door and you're like come sit down let's talk it's referring to taking them into your home and housing them and encouraging them in their ministries so I'm not to do any partnership with a ministry that preaches the false gospel but family seems to be different than this situation right families different and and I can give you a scripture that proves it so in 1st Peter Peter deals with a woman who's married the hypothetical is a woman who is married to an unbelieving husband and he encourages her to do well in this marriage to have a healthy marriage and to stay committed to her husband there's no idea of separation between this woman and her unbelieving husband now her unbelieving husband could well be saying things like Jesus isn't the Messiah he never rose from the dead the Bible is a bunch of made-up nonsense which is effectively the same as a false gospel right and it's an anti gospel yet she doesn't separate from her husband she stays faithful to him she stays loving to him she spends time with him she tries to build relationship with him because family is not the same as fellowship families not the same as church so I think that while someone like that might not be welcome in a ministry III if they're my family I still wanna stay connected to them and preach to them and minister to them and outreach to them as much as possible I hope that that helps dakota france says what is problematic when looking at creation science or what is your opinion on it i I love that there's different my my brief opinion of this Dakotah I'm not a scientist in my opinion though is that I really love looking at the people who are studying these things and reporting back on them I love guys like Steven Mayer I really like Steven Mayer a lot you know in the the content they're producing to help us understand these sort of complicated issues you know Michael Bay he's irreducible complexity I think is really interesting and I haven't heard good responses to it personally so I think that kind of stuffs real interesting and I know there's also other groups like Hugh Ross and his group has their angle Ken Ham and their group has their angle and me being someone who doesn't know what the right answers are to these questions I appreciate just listening to all the people involved and thinking about it so there's a few thoughts on it Susan Morales says when does a person have a soul with that that is a challenging question and Susan I don't know the right answer to it windows in Solman take that's the term is insolvent with people disguise I don't know what the right answer for that is some people would say at conception others and some would say that the soul is somehow genetic like me maybe you get it right away and it develops slowly becoming more concrete or more perhaps more advanced or something others would say the soul comes at some point like maybe at the quickening the first time the woman feels the baby or perhaps when the first time the blood flows or something like that and then discussions about when twins break off in the womb there's wholeness discussion about is there okay what if the installment happened at inception their conception for that inception at conception if that's what in Solman took place and then sometime later there was a twinning that happened the two twins broke off wait did did the Soul split did one soul become two souls and these are questions I don't know the answers to so good question all right my lady and read says given that God would permit the loss of innocent lives in a just war wouldn't he also permit or allow for abortions in cases of rape or incest God permitting things does not mean God's giving permission for those things I think this is a really important distinction God permits people to commit murder I mean he does people commit murder he allows it so this doesn't give us permission to do though to do that yeah so now would God perhaps allow in cases of rape or incest well let me put it this way here's why I don't think this makes sense well I don't have any examples in scripture for this I have the the the the soul of the the child will not die for the sins of the father it I believe it's Ezekiel that teaches on this that the the son will not die for the sins of the father and that's what rape does rape kills the son for the sins of the father or the daughter for the sins of the father or mother in the case of incest what we're saying is because your DNA is compromised you you should be killed and just think if we play that out what if it was a one month old baby and at one month old you find out that that baby is both the result of rape and incest is it okay to kill that baby now no god forbid this is a one month old baby but wait what is it that's different about the baby six months ago from now when it's one month out of the womb what about when was six months in the womb a six-month-old baby what is it so different about it well it's not smart enough well one month old baby ain't smart it doesn't even know what's going on oh it's but it's dependent on the mother well its dependency just makes it more of a victim it doesn't mean we can kill it none of these qualities seem to change the moral issue lu graduate says do people realize that the term for foetus is latin for baby i doubt it good question gerard perry says what do you think of the divisions between the pro-life and abolitionist movements i'm not totally sure of all what the divisions are I'm trying to remember now cuz I I'm so interested in pro-life versus pro-choice that I'm not really as focused on those things some talk about how aggressive we should be as pro-life or should we show signs should we show images I'm much more open to those types of things I think that those things can be used a twist with wisdom they can be used to fit the great effect but as far as like should be illegal should it be punishable like by law well it seems like an obvious yes to me it seems like an obvious yes do we retro actively go and punish everybody in the past who's already done it I don't think that's even feasible to do that I'm talking about moving forward but it's a real human rights violation it's a genuine human rights violation when we stopped slavery in America we caused the slave owners to release the slaves right we didn't go back and prosecute them for all the years and what had happened before but we had to like make a change let's turn the tide okay but then in the future if someone is caught trying to enslave someone yes they're punished by law and I think that we would have that same policy going on here then she says dear Pastor Mike what are your thoughts about the souls of the babies that have been killed through abortion do you think babies that have died go straight to heaven I think they do go to be with the presence of God and I'm very grateful for that I'm very grateful for that for those who think that means it's okay to kill them well let's kill them because we'll send them all to God um well that's you can make the same case for killing Christians that you guys can kill me because I'll go to God and if you're if you think if your moral compass works that way then I just hope you don't live near me Jose Luis Gonzales says should the pro-life movement support free health care for pregnant women and paid leave No and this is this this gets into a bigger issue which is this here's the pro-life movement stop killing innocent humans here's the pro-choice movement if you don't pay for people's health care we won't stop killing innocent humans wait what I mean these were some of the stuff that happened with slavery the slavery issue in the early us they were like hey you let these slaves go are you gonna are you gonna provide for them are you gonna take care of them are you gonna provide housing and school and jobs and all this stuff wait I don't have to provide all that to tell you that that's a human rights violation I don't have to like create homes for Jewish people to tell you that you need to let them out of you know Asha wit's right don't put that burden on me it's an immoral thing to to say that we're not gonna stop killing these people unless you provide a health care for these other people that being said pro-life movements do that actually pro-life movement does tons to help women through not only pregnancy but after pregnancy for for the first years of motherhood for for adoption services if they need them all those things Eddie Vasquez says uh what should I say when the woman's life might be in danger if she carries the baby to term my view on this and most the pro-lifers I've ever talked to the view that that's the one situation where abortion is appropriate and the idea is this you're not you're not doing this to kill a life you're doing this to save a life right you're gonna lose two lives in a situation where both the mother and the child will die you should do your best to save whoever you can I think we all understand this if we had conjoined twins and one of them was dying but because they're conjoined the death of one would kill the other there it's okay to separate them even if that separation causes the death of the one who's already dying so there are situations like that where it's like both will die if we don't save one and we have through this horrible procedure to save one that's the one exception and I don't know if personally I don't know of a pro-choice person I've heard who says other other than that so I the life of the mother like there's no argument here let's see Adventures of smooch pooch and Emily Wallace says what is Mike's opinion on fertility drugs my stepsister used the drugs and is having twins it's scary because the mother is small and now this is an unnatural birth thank you I don't I don't think I'm qualified to talk about them but I mean you off-the-cuff my thought is Oh fertility drugs would seem to be good as long as they're good fertility drugs but I don't know enough about them last question for tonight is then she says dear Pastor Mike what are your thoughts about the souls of babies that have been killed through abortion do you think babies that have died go straight to heaven and yes I do and AJ recommends second Samuel 12:23 because this is where David talks about how after he lost his child he says I could go to be with him but I can't bring him to be with me and he seems not to just be saying I could die like he died he seems to be saying I could go to be with him that there's like that baby went somewhere and he's going there too and David certainly thought he was gonna be in glory so that is the livestream for today we got more stuff coming up in future weeks and I have a video coming up real soon on the passion translation I just did a really good I think a good video covering a lot of topics with enduring virtues channel it's not up on our channel yet but once it gets up I'll also share to my channel and all that good stuff so thank you guys so much for joining me he's inchi it was good seeing you again I feeling haven't seen you in a while just that I know of so it's good seeing your seen your name again and I hope you guys have a great day thanks again to my mods and all that and don't forget to check out the video description because I did put some links in there that I think you guys are find interesting thank you for joining me and for thinking these things through let's not forget the babies 

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